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Biden Administration

testboner

testboner

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Oct 10, 2010
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We’ve got to evolve beyond politics. We’re stuck (have been for a couple centuries) in a dead end rut.

Overall, once a given set of ideas is entrusted by a large enough number of people, it becomes an “institution”- and once that institution is made dominant in some way, such as existing for a certain period of time, that institution could then be considered an “establishment”. “Institutional establishments” are simply social traditions given the illusion of permanence and the longer they persist, often the stronger the defense of their right to exist by the majority of culture.

If we examine the institutional establishments we take for granted today – from macro system attributes such as the financial system, the legal system, the political system and major religious systems – to micro system attributes such as materialism, marriage, celebrity, etc. – we must remind ourselves that none of these ideas are actually real in the physical sense. These are temporal meme structures we have created to serve our purposes given conditions at certain points in time and no matter how much we emotionally attach to such issues; no matter how large an institution may become; no matter how many people may believe in such institutions - they are still impositions of thought and transient by nature.
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
2,185
666
We’ve got to evolve beyond politics. We’re stuck (have been for a couple centuries) in a dead end rut.

Overall, once a given set of ideas is entrusted by a large enough number of people, it becomes an “institution”- and once that institution is made dominant in some way, such as existing for a certain period of time, that institution could then be considered an “establishment”. “Institutional establishments” are simply social traditions given the illusion of permanence and the longer they persist, often the stronger the defense of their right to exist by the majority of culture.

If we examine the institutional establishments we take for granted today – from macro system attributes such as the financial system, the legal system, the political system and major religious systems – to micro system attributes such as materialism, marriage, celebrity, etc. – we must remind ourselves that none of these ideas are actually real in the physical sense. These are temporal meme structures we have created to serve our purposes given conditions at certain points in time and no matter how much we emotionally attach to such issues; no matter how large an institution may become; no matter how many people may believe in such institutions - they are still impositions of thought and transient by nature.


A very well constructed line-of thought (reasoning) and EXTREMELY "thought-provocating" post. TB!...

It makes one wonder, "whose/what" STANDARDS, MORALS, PRINCIPLES should we base (set) our moral compass too?!....What ONE man/woman/child should "we" adhere to in regards to us basing our "way of living" on THEIR compass?....

.
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
2,185
666
What it translates to me, is inspiration and slight (ever so slight) hope. The proposed / exampled model in the film is really shooting for the stars…. But that’s alright — alternative / creative thinking is in fact necessary to future sustainability what we cannot continue with is this status quo system…. there’s no “fixing it.” A doing away with the old for a new system is essential. Since such a way of life (system model) hasn’t been done before it’ll seem strange, odd, impossible….. but, something new has to be created and adopted. The film does a good job of describing the root problems, and examples just one of many possible alternative solutions. Of course not everyone will agree, and that’s alright — but what we must reach a point of all agreeing with is that the status quo has to go.



Do u really believe that if this occurs, a "New System" is established, that "mankind" will solve their problems?...The Scriptures say, "NO"....Man cannot rule man?...What's your thoughts on this, friend?...


.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
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Do u really believe that if this occurs, a "New System" is established, that "mankind" will solve their problems?...The Scriptures say, "NO"....Man cannot rule man?...What's your thoughts on this, friend?...


.
While our finite existence continues, structures can and ought to change for the good (better). We can’t say “Well since the Bible reveals the futility of the world and it’s ultimate demise (“Revelation” — the destruction of the present, and a new world and heaven established), then we have to continue the present system.”

Doing what’s best for the planet is diametrically opposed to what’s best for big business (the world system).
Nothing can change until the incentive structure (ultimately, value structure) changes. Until the present system becomes economically unacceptable rather than monetarily rewarding.

Remember we’re told: “Do not be conformed to this world [system], but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.”
 
HDH

HDH

TID Board Of Directors
Sep 30, 2011
2,952
2,284
What it translates to me, is inspiration and slight (ever so slight) hope. The proposed / exampled model in the film is really shooting for the stars…. But that’s alright — alternative / creative thinking is in fact necessary to future sustainability — what we cannot continue with is this status quo system…. there’s no “fixing it.” A doing away with the old for a new system is essential. Since such a way of life (system model) hasn’t been done before it’ll seem strange, odd, impossible….. but, something new has to be created and adopted. The film does a good job of describing the root problems, and examples just one of many possible alternative solutions. Of course not everyone will agree, and that’s alright — but what we must reach a point of all agreeing with is that the status quo has to go.
It has to start somewhere, I don't believe something like this is impossible.

A little political history about myself, I have posted it before but it's been a while. Up until a year and a half ago I knew absolutely nothing about politics. I didn't know dem from republican, red from blue or donkey from elephant. I had no knowledge of how anything worked and the only politicians I knew were past presidents. I couldn't understand why they were letting cities burn or how I became a racist because of being white. Politics is where it all pointed to. I was truly nonbiased coming into this, on no one's side.

I went from knowing nothing to HOLY FUCKING SHIT in a hurry, this is all shit you can't unsee.

I feel like I'm growing as fast as I'm learning all this. It's been some tough shit to swallow. The govt/world govts are out to kill people off and enslave the rest in one form or another (in a nutshell) and are doing a hell of a job so far.

In the vid it talked about 90% of the workforce becoming automated, that was in 2008. Elon Musk just said the same thing, 90% automated. Going by their plan, that's way too many noncontributing mouths to feed when the world flips socialist/communist.

I've never put much thought in the world actually coming together and working for the population. To me it was something we may achieve centuries in the future. I guess it's never to early to plant seeds.

I'm still looking for some white hats to keep us running with the constitution for now since the alternative is everyone broke and doing what their told. As far as capitalism goes, I believe Trump's plan would have put us in the best position we have been in since the banks started printing money for us.

It's good for the economy and more people have money in their pockets but people still needlessly suffer. Elderly, disabled, vets, homeless with mental issues, etc... We have the money and resources for these people yet they still suffer.
 
Last edited:
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
1,155
1,287
It has to start somewhere, I don't believe something like this is impossible.

A little political history about myself, I have posted it before but it's been a while. Up until a year and a half ago I knew absolutely nothing about politics. I didn't know dem from republican, red from blue or donkey from elephant. I had no knowledge of how anything worked and the only politicians I knew were past presidents. I couldn't understand why they were letting cities burn or how I became a racist because of being white. Politics is where it all pointed to. I was truly nonbiased coming into this, on no one's side.

I went from knowing nothing to HOLY FUCKING SHIT in a hurry, this is all shit you can't unsee.

I feel like I'm growing as fast as I'm learning all this. It's been some tough shit to swallow. The govt/world govts are out to kill people off and enslave the rest in one form or another (in a nutshell) and are doing a hell of a job so far.

In the vid it talked about 90% of the workforce becoming automated, that was in 2008. Elon Musk just said the same thing, 90% automated. Going by their plan, that's way too many noncontributing mouths to feed when the world flips socialist/communist.

I've never put much thought in the world actually coming together and working for the population. To me it was something we may achieve centuries in the future. I guess it's never to early to plant seeds.

I'm still looking for some white hats to keep us running with the constitution for now since the alternative is everyone broke and doing what their told. As far as capitalism goes, I believe Trump's plan would have put us in the best position we have been in since the banks started printing money for us.

It's good for the economy and more people have money in their pockets but people still needlessly suffer. Elderly, disabled, vets, homeless with mental issues, etc... We have the money and resources for these people yet they still suffer.

I appreciate you sharing and discussing Bro. These are matters we all face collectively across the world despite differing enculturation, personal views, etc. We’re all spinning around on this little marble together — a closed set of systems that impact us all. We’re a weird species!

I want to highly recommend you view the Peter Joseph discussion with Brian Rose. It clears up a lot about the thinking of Peter, his broad knowledge, and it’s stimulating and inspiring. Not so utopian like his old project partner from the Venus Project. They parted ways. Peter’s studies are extensive, diverse, and his vision is entirely relatable once you’ve truly heard him out. Please have a listen, it will answer a good many questions.
 
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

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Dec 25, 2010
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While our finite existence continues, structures can and ought to change for the good (better)....

Doing what’s best for the planet is diametrically opposed to what’s best for big business (the world system).
Not trying to be a jerk, but would you define "better" for me? And what is "best" for the planet?
Life expectancy throughout the world has skyrocketed over the past 150 years.


The world has made huge strides in overcoming global poverty. Since 1990, more than 1.2 billion people have risen out of extreme poverty. Now, 9.2% of the world survives on less than $1.90 a day, compared to nearly 36% in 1990.


Take political turmoil out of the equation, and global poverty would be even lower.

I guess the point I'd like to make is that given that things have improved markedly over the past 150 years despite the ravages of communism and multiple world wars, maybe we should be slow to burn the present system down and replace it with one that is untested.

Our biggest problems today in the US is that people are so rich that small businesses can't find workers to fill jobs. And these jobs aren't hazardous jobs under hazardous conditions. It's waiting tables, and making deliveries. I'd say we're more morally bankrupt as a culture than we are financially bankrupt. So if we're going to burn anything down, I'd recommend razing the US university system and replacing it with an apprenticeship system that actually teaches people worthwhile, usable skills, and eradicates the worthless, communist radicals (at least requires them to go out into the real world and get a job)
 
testboner

testboner

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Oct 10, 2010
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Not trying to be a jerk, but would you define "better" for me? And what is "best" for the planet?
Life expectancy throughout the world has skyrocketed over the past 150 years.


The world has made huge strides in overcoming global poverty. Since 1990, more than 1.2 billion people have risen out of extreme poverty. Now, 9.2% of the world survives on less than $1.90 a day, compared to nearly 36% in 1990.


Take political turmoil out of the equation, and global poverty would be even lower.

I guess the point I'd like to make is that given that things have improved markedly over the past 150 years despite the ravages of communism and multiple world wars, maybe we should be slow to burn the present system down and replace it with one that is untested.

Our biggest problems today in the US is that people are so rich that small businesses can't find workers to fill jobs. And these jobs aren't hazardous jobs under hazardous conditions. It's waiting tables, and making deliveries. I'd say we're more morally bankrupt as a culture than we are financially bankrupt. So if we're going to burn anything down, I'd recommend razing the US university system and replacing it with an apprenticeship system that actually teaches people worthwhile, usable skills, and eradicates the worthless, communist radicals (at least requires them to go out into the real world and get a job)

And not to be a jerk, but all of that is such simpleton regurgitation. I haven’t got the time to respond with more at the moment — likely not today, but I’ll get to it soon.
 
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

Senior Moderators
Staff Member
Dec 25, 2010
5,852
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And not to be a jerk, but all of that is such simpleton regurgitation. I haven’t got the time to respond with more at the moment — likely not today, but I’ll get to it soon.
Hey TB, no worries. I know you're not being a jerk. We can have a good back and forth and everything is good. I'll agree with you that there are plenty of things that need fixing, but capitalism and relatively free markets have spawned an explosion in wealth, and extraordinary improvements in global health, living standards, etc.

Just 140 years ago, the wealthiest people didn't have running water in their homes, nor furnaces or air conditioning. Now go to the closest housing projects near you, and those unemployed gang bangers have cell phones, big screen TVs, gaming consoles, running water, heat in the winter, AC in the summer, and nobody is starving in the US. In fact, we're fatter than ever.
 
testboner

testboner

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Oct 10, 2010
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TG2,

Most people believe most of the things they believe only because they believe that most people believe them.

I want to answer in response to a couple things you expressed, BUT, it’s quite useless really, because responding in kind is dignifying the status quo system as being the only thing we have to work with, and it’s just a matter of how it’s run (degrees of more or less dysfunction). This isn’t the argument (or premise) I come from however.
What I’m attempting to express is that this system (globally, not simply an ism….. capitalism, socialism, communism, etc) is wrong, and for future sustainability and improvements of current standards to be better — must be replaced with some sort of new model.
We cannot continue with the clear and evident present levels of dysfunction — it’s impossible to sustain. None of our global systems are a correct balance nor should be accepted as sufficient. And these are not matters that can nor will be resolved by gov’t. Gov’t is first and foremost concerned only with merely retaining a monopoly on regional control (as vast a region/s as possible), retaining itself as an institutional establishment system.
And globally, there really isn’t as much separation of all the isms as we imagine, because economy (global market) is an amalgamation — a contrived conglomerate contract of sorts.

To reiterate from an prior posting, our system (the global market system and social values construct as is, as particular examples in relation to your status quo apologetics post) are temporal meme structures we have created to serve our purposes given conditions at certain points in time and no matter how much we emotionally attach to such issues; no matter how large an institution may become; no matter how many people may believe in such institutions - they are still impositions of thought and transient by nature.

The gap between the “haves” and “have nots” —> ‘social stratification’, defined as: society's categorization of its people into groups based on socioeconomic factorslike wealth, income, race, education, ethnicity, gender, occupation, social status, or derived power (social and political), has never been more vast. The disparity has and does increase exponentially with the present system at large.

The system your post makes a defense for, is an inherently increasingly corrupt construct. The market system is waste, exploitation, imbalance/inequality, etc…..
This has proven irrefutable throughout the course of history. The very thing you’re seeming to defend (that largely stems from enculturation rather than deeply analyzed facts) is where the “better” I speak of is vital to comprehend.
“Better” in just small part, would be less waste, less exploitation (for profit at any and all expense), and greater equality / balance — both human and ecological.
Capitalism in particular is dependent upon endless resources, of which we don’t have — natural resources unless regenerative are finite. This is heavily where the exploitation (of resources, low paid labor, and inequality) is evident. Capitalism also fuels rampant consumption…excessive consumerism is its lifeblood.

Regarding life expectancy (US): Despite the overall increase, the life expectancy dropped three times since 1860; from 1865 to 1870 during the American Civil War, from 1915 to 1920 during the First World War and following Spanish Flu epidemic, and it has dropped again between 2015 and now. The reason for the most recent drop in life expectancy is not a result of any specific event, but has been attributed to negative societal trends, such as unbalanced diets and sedentary lifestyles, high medical costs, and increasing rates of suicide and drug use.
You may not be aware just how badly the US in particular is doing with “Healthy” life expectancy (and even total life expectancy in on the decline for many years now):
https://www.jeffnobbs.com/posts/trends-in-usa-healthy-life-expectancy

And just to briefly scratch the surface on your belief (illusory) that hunger isn’t a problem at least in the US (globally it’s horrendous) —
Food insecurity US:
https://frac.org/hunger-poverty-america
 
testboner

testboner

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Oct 10, 2010
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TG2,

If you didn’t / haven’t taken the time to view the videos I posted, I request and genuinely would like you to, and to give a little feedback once you have.
I recommend viewing with this in mind; the first vid (Addendum) has a lengthy feature of Jacque Fresco who was a brilliant thinker, and well meaning, though quite strongly utopian in vision. Peter Joseph, the film maker had partnered with him to feature his model as one potential of systems change. They parted ways however as Peter’s vision is broader and less Star Trek like.

The 2nd vid (‘Moving Forward’) is a slightly updated and expanded vision.

Lastly, the Peter Joseph interview with Brian Rose of the London Real show, is full of insightful info and more descriptive, explanatory of Peter’s stance, reasoning, basis.



 
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