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Beyond AAS.....INSULIN

arnold

arnold

Member
Sep 9, 2010
86
8
#1
Guys,

Hoping to get a good discussion going here on insulin. Insulin is undoubtedly a main contributor to today's biggest freaks looking the way they do. Insulin is an interesting and somewhat complex compound to understand (specifically when optimizing its use for bodybuilding). There are plenty of conventional recommendations for PWO insulin use blah blah we all have heard this before- fast acting insulin with 7-10carbs per iu and then a clean carb+protein+low fat meal 1:30mins after this to ensure quick acting preferential nutrients during the end of the insulin's active window.

There are a few other theories I wish to touch on here:

-One belongs to Milos Sarcev and the like- PRE-workout insulin use

some info here: (if anyone has links- post away) However he advocates using fast acting insulin PRE workout and then making sure to have available nutrients to be driven into the muscle during the workout (when blood flow to muscle is maximized). we can discuss details later on

comments:I am a firm believer that pre/intra workout nutrition is as, if not more important that post workout nutrition. Recent studies are suggesting this as well. I have had much success with myself and my clients using a pre/intra workout nutrition program (with and without exogenous insulin use). Again, details later

-The other belongs to a fellow board member- Maxititer - LONG ACTING insulin use.

comments: This is a view that troubles people. As humans we naturally secrete basal insulin in response to food intake. However Maxititer suggests that providing supra-physiological doses of long acting insulin keeps the body in a stronger anti-catabolic and anabolic state. (keep in mind this state of anabolism occurs for FAT as much as it does MUSCLE - insulin isn't selective). The two drugs mainly discussed here are Lantus (preferred) and levemir (only advantage is purportedly less fat accumulation). I would be interested to get a discussion going about this- What type of advantage the exogenous insulin will have over natural basal insulin, what type of nutritional changes must occur to compensate for the additional insulin, does this method TRULY not interfere with endogenous insulin production? etc
 
chicken_hawk

chicken_hawk

MuscleHead
Oct 28, 2010
718
146
#2
Big fan of PRW slin myself. It makes sense to stuff the the muscle with nutrients while blood is pumping into it, plus even fast acting works for like 5 hrs so it will still be working PWO as well.

Hawk
 
LITTLEMAGS

LITTLEMAGS

VIP Member
Nov 1, 2010
316
103
#3
during my offseason i have used pre workout slin use. I do however stick with 1-2 iu's only. I will sip a dextrose/glutamine and bcaa's while training. i have put a solid 5 -6 pounds over 6 months.
 
GDAWG15

GDAWG15

Member
Mar 5, 2011
36
1
#4
Best mass builder is Insulin (humulin R imo) if used right in combination with GH...

Posted this on hcm:

Usually I train around 1130am. Upon waking at 4am I hit 5iu gh (5 more at night),shower and 30min later hit 10iu slin. Eat directly after injecting slin. 1 hr later i consume carbs and 1 hr following i eat. 1030 I hit 10 more iu of slin and eat again. Training comes in at 1130. I have 75g of carbs from Karbolyn 3/4 of the way thru my workout mixed with SyntheSize (20g protein),some bcaa's, beta alanine. Exactly 1 hour after my workout it is a full meal again. Usually my meals consist of white rice (2 cups cooked) and steak, chicken or fish - 5-6 meals a day.

Shakes are used thru the day also consisting of oatmeal (100+ grams of carbs) and 2-3 scoops of choc whey blended with water.
 
AXEMURDERER

AXEMURDERER

VIP Member
Jan 5, 2011
342
60
#5
I am still a big PWO user, but only about 2 times per week. I could not get into using it preworkout. My workouts, especially the squat days left me uneasy no matter how many carbs I was taking in. Others swear by it. Gdawg has rocketed in size since he began slin protocols.
 
red rocket

red rocket

Senior Member
Feb 17, 2011
122
18
#6
I love pre work out, personally. I find I have no problems controlling the slin that way. I am in the same conditioning as I was @ 8 weeks out but am still 12 weeks out and 20lbs heavier. In only a 4month off season.

Post workout I generally have a harder time and end up going hypo. I generally miss by like 5 minutes.
 
J

jute

Senior Member
Dec 22, 2010
142
9
#7
Do you guys notice and difference while working out on slin? Ive been experimenting with it, and find no differnce in energy or anything else while training
 
W

Warrior504th

New Member
Mar 29, 2011
6
1
#8
Exogeneous insulin is not identical to natural insulin, unlike other treatments like testosterone. Thus, at an appropriate dose it will actually improve insulin sensitivity. However, please be careful - your blood sugar will trend upward over time, and this is a signal that one should discontinue use.

A problem we encounter here is that the benefits are minimal unless other aspects of the body are enhanced as well (such as using exogeneous testosterone)... ESPECIALLY with use of growth hormone, as insulin and growth hormone have a synergistic mode of action involving receptor count. The synergy of all 3 combined is unmatched... However, insulin alone? Waste. At the very least combine with GH which can also block adipose accumulation on the cellular level and help force glycogen to the muscles. Of course, this is assuming you time your GH (wisely) around meals.

Preworkout insulin is extremely risky. A (relatively) new discovery in insulin function is that it actually blocks the release of glucose from stores even in the event of low blood sugar. When you're repping out 500lb squats, the last thing you need is a plummet in blood glucose levels. This is when the hypoglycemic coma and death occur. Post workout is much safer. Humalog used pre-workout is especially rough due to the intensity of the elevated levels at it's spikes (15 minutes and 1.5 hours is it?). You should have a cup of water and dextrose as well as something solid and slightly more complex like white rice. Be prepared for the worst, especially with short acting insulin before extreme lifting. Remember! Insulin prevents the body's natural defense mechanism against reduced blood sugar. This is *NOT* something you try before you have used insulin extensively in other aspects. If you have to use the "fast" acting, I would use the slower of the two and aim for Humulin-R pre-workout for experienced users, and not humalog. Humulin-R is available OTC In the USA as a right to life drug.

The only problem I see with long acting insulin is that you need to be up and awake during its lifetime. You do NOT want to slip into hypoglycemia when you're fast asleep (RIP). Ending my workouts at 7:30 with a 5 hour active window (humulin R) and having to be up at 6 AM is out of the question. If you're taking these in the morning, that is a different story. I am still not comfortable with an insulin longer than 5-6 hours. Too many spikes, too many potential problems, and too much worry. I wouldn't go beyond humulin R. With this, I can control my hypoglycemia risk in 5-6 hour segments.

(strong first post?)
 
W

Warrior504th

New Member
Mar 29, 2011
6
1
#9
Do you guys notice and difference while working out on slin? Ive been experimenting with it, and find no differnce in energy or anything else while training
You shouldnt. You would have to REALLY work to get elevated blood sugar levels with short(er) acting insulin in your blood preventing glucose release.
 
BGMRC

BGMRC

Member
Dec 24, 2010
79
14
#10
before...after

both very effective...

but 3 ius before every meal and never miss a meal or workout is insane growth
 
the-duke

the-duke

Senior Member
Nov 7, 2012
107
12
#11
Insulin is what makes freaks look the way they are. Risky in many factors based on how high a dose and how many carbs you intake. Also another big risk is length of time taking it.

I personally run slin 4 weeks on 4 weeks off feel like I stay pretty safe way. But my 4 weeks on I am pretty heavy with my use. 3iu before every meal and 15-20iu pre workout. Always consume plenty of carbs and nutrients along side of it and I've always been ok. Best mass builder of all time. Last run I put on 14lbs and stayed relatively lean the whole time
 
S

silverbaklats

New Member
Jan 3, 2013
7
0
#12
if you dont notice a difference you're doing something wrong. since your muscles are stuffed full of glycogen your endurance should be off the chart. try log immediately pre workout and sip on 2 scoops of karbolyn and 30-50g hydrowhey
 
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