Questions About Estrogen.....

[klbsa]

So, I hear mixed results about estrogen and how important it is for gains...... Some say you need a certain amount to get real gains and others say its nothing but evil stuff that will turn you into a crying bitch.

I am Currently taking a DMZ/MSTEN stack on a very restrictive diet to trim up and not lose any muscle..... I will transfer over to Primo/Anavar once I use up these old prohormones I had left over from a few years ago. I have plenty of Clomid on hand and am wondering:

If I take 20 mgs a day right now to stop the estrogen from keeping my BF up will I lose any potential extra gains that i may have gotten otherwise? Or will it not really matter? I have made some modest gains for sure in the past week or so and I don't want that to stop. I realize that for real gains I need to eat a lot more but losing fat is top priority at the moment.....and like I said I'm still seeing positive mass gains pretty quickly.

I'm not getting any estrogen related side effects currently except maybe not shedding fat as quickly as I'd like. So to recap, If I take some clomid, I assume I will lose fat a little faster? Or would it be negligible? If it will kick my fat loss into hyperdrive, will I lose any gains I may have gotten otherwise?

Sorry for the long post, I just trust the feedback I get here most of the time.

 

[charger69]

So, I hear mixed results about estrogen and how important it is for gains...... Some say you need a certain amount to get real gains and others say its nothing but evil stuff that will turn you into a crying bitch.

I am Currently taking a DMZ/MSTEN stack on a very restrictive diet to trim up and not lose any muscle..... I will transfer over to Primo/Anavar once I use up these old prohormones I had left over from a few years ago. I have plenty of Clomid on hand and am wondering:

If I take 20 mgs a day right now to stop the estrogen from keeping my BF up will I lose any potential extra gains that i may have gotten otherwise? Or will it not really matter? I have made some modest gains for sure in the past week or so and I don't want that to stop. I realize that for real gains I need to eat a lot more but losing fat is top priority at the moment.....and like I said I'm still seeing positive mass gains pretty quickly.

I'm not getting any estrogen related side effects currently except maybe not shedding fat as quickly as I'd like. So to recap, If I take some clomid, I assume I will lose fat a little faster? Or would it be negligible? If it will kick my fat loss into hyperdrive, will I lose any gains I may have gotten otherwise?

Sorry for the long post, I just trust the feedback I get here most of the time.

There are two reasons why people say that estrogen is evil; they are estrogen sensitive ( ie gyno), or they do not know what they are talking about.
I am presently phase cycling and on the estrogen phase of the cycle. I do not take an AI because I am not estrogen sensitive.
Estrogen is anabolic. I am on a high test cycle. The one thing that I need to be careful of is endema. High estrogen will store extra water. Too much water and you will throw your body out of kilter.
Why do you think that the estrogen is causing fat gain? What makes you think that your estrogen is high? Are you taking TRT or any test?


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[klbsa]

There are two reasons why people say that estrogen is evil; they are estrogen sensitive ( ie gyno), or they do not know what they are talking about.
I am presently phase cycling and on the estrogen phase of the cycle. I do not take an AI because I am not estrogen sensitive.
Estrogen is anabolic. I am on a high test cycle. The one thing that I need to be careful of is endema. High estrogen will store extra water. Too much water and you will throw your body out of kilter.
Why do you think that the estrogen is causing fat gain? What makes you think that your estrogen is high? Are you taking TRT or any test?


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I am not taking any test, but years back when I took this same stack my blood work showed a lot of estrogen...... My wife (who is an MD) says that estrogen promotes fat storage, but I'm no expert or anything.... Just what I heard. So I figured if I block those receptors maybe it would help with me cutting fat.

My lack of actual knowledge is obvious and is why I posted this question.

 

[genetic freak]

I would only run an AI if I showed serious side effects of estrogen (gyno). They do far more damage to people than they realize. If you are really worried about estrogen with the DMZ/MSTEN then add in the primo now. A lot of people use primo to bring down their estrogen on high test cycles or test and d-bol cycles. In fact, running primo without another compound that aromatizes can actually bring your estrogen levels to a point they inhibit progress, i.e. primo and anavar without test could cause some problems.

 

[klbsa]

I would only run an AI if I showed serious side effects of estrogen (gyno). They do far more damage to people than they realize. If you are really worried about estrogen with the DMZ/MSTEN then add in the primo now. A lot of people use primo to bring down their estrogen on high test cycles or test and d-bol cycles. In fact, running primo without another compound that aromatizes can actually bring your estrogen levels to a point they inhibit progress, i.e. primo and anavar without test could cause some problems.

Hmmm…… I am planning on hitting a Primo/Var cycle next. Should I add a high androgen to the mix? I hate the recovery from test….. Is there another alternative to test in that primo/var scenario?

 

[charger69]

Hmmm…… I am planning on hitting a Primo/Var cycle next. Should I add a high androgen to the mix? I hate the recovery from test….. Is there another alternative to test in that primo/var scenario?

Don’t kill the messenger. Tren is what I use on my androgen phase.
Also mast will help even more than primo.


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[genetic freak]

Hmmm…… I am planning on hitting a Primo/Var cycle next. Should I add a high androgen to the mix? I hate the recovery from test….. Is there another alternative to test in that primo/var scenario?

What is it that makes you hate test? I will never run a cycle without it. I think test, primo and anavar would be an awesome cycle at the right doses.

 

[Determined]

If you’re not using test, you’re missing out entirely on the gains sir. If you want my 2cents, less is more approach for anti estrogen.. aromasin seems to do me right when needed.. but i am too not gyno prone.. so I only take anti estrogen when I’m doing a serious shred.

 

[klbsa]

Honestly…… I stay away from test in my old age because I find it incredibly addictive and before I know it I’m shooting test for a year straight. Then the recovery is awful…..I like to jump on and off short cycles now…… But you guys have me considering throwing 10 weeks of sust into the mix and come off everything with a low dose of anavar.

Im not looking for huge gains right now…. just trying to be a veiny sinewy mess at 200 lbs or so…. When I break 210 lbs My blood pressure go too high and I get sleep apnea.

 

[charger69]

If you’re not using test, you’re missing out entirely on the gains sir. If you want my 2cents, less is more approach for anti estrogen.. aromasin seems to do me right when needed.. but i am too not gyno prone.. so I only take anti estrogen when I’m doing a serious shred.

So what are you taking on a shred that causes the estrogen? Have you ever tried masteron? It may help and also helps you with the cutting cycle.

I agree about the test. I don’t mention it because it is a given for me but at lower doses. During the estrogen phase I am at 1200 mg/ week. During cutting, I am about 400-500.
AAS will stop the natural production, without test you will probably feel the lack of test. It also messes with the test/estrogen balance. When I say off cycle, I am on about 150-200 (TRt levels).


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[genetic freak]

Honestly…… I stay away from test in my old age because I find it incredibly addictive and before I know it I’m shooting test for a year straight. Then the recovery is awful…..I like to jump on and off short cycles now…… But you guys have me considering throwing 10 weeks of sust into the mix and come off everything with a low dose of anavar.

Im not looking for huge gains right now…. just trying to be a veiny sinewy mess at 200 lbs or so…. When I break 210 lbs My blood pressure go too high and I get sleep apnea.

How old are you? I think most of the older guys on the boards are on TRT, so we do not have to worry about recovery. That being said, some of us will come off for a month or two to help the testes and receptors recover. If your PCT is on point you can recover in a month.

 

[BD Cool]

I would only run an AI if I showed serious side effects of estrogen (gyno). They do far more damage to people than they realize. If you are really worried about estrogen with the DMZ/MSTEN then add in the primo now. A lot of people use primo to bring down their estrogen on high test cycles or test and d-bol cycles. In fact, running primo without another compound that aromatizes can actually bring your estrogen levels to a point they inhibit progress, i.e. primo and anavar without test could cause some problems.

Agreed.

Also, it's been a long time since I ran DMZ or MSten but I don't think they raise estrogen levels or convert to estrogen. Therefore, an AI would do much more harm than good.

If you're looking to burn more fat I'd recommend fasted cardio in the morning and a simple ECA stack.