Lets keep this civil....lol

[dr jim]

Here is a blog site that runs down the whole debate as it stands with the historicity of Jesus. Neither side has evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. The Jesus existed side lies and says they do, and the myth side is honest about it. When all is said and done, there is a bigger probability that Jesus never existed.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/1794

Really Jesus never existed, LMAO. Those who make such a proclamation in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary rarely have any other objective but self promotion and Etham is certainly no exception. The fact is those of similar ilk referred to as "naysayers", receive a disproportionate amount of media attention because of their "progressive" nonparty line agenda.

I'm mean it's absurd the number of single point arguments like "prove me wrong" or ad-homine evidence from those whom have successfully rebutted Ethan's "points of contention" that makes me suspect his next writing will explain why he believes "slavery" or Abe Lincoln also never existed!

Moreover to use a much less than objective Mr Hoffman as support for his position on the Jesus issue is like the cat pronouncing the kettle is black!

I suspect since both are self proclaimed atheists what they really despise is the connection of Jesus with a deity! Why? "Eliminating" the existence of the former enables the denial of the latter!

The fact is these are separate issues. That is, whether Jesus "existed" as opposed to a direct connection with God in either a genotypical or phenotypical sense. Because if the latter could be proven (which it can not) being an atheist would be difficult indeed and defy a sense of reason, IMO.

One can deny Jesus performed miracles on a legitimate scientific basis, primarily because only isolated anecdotal reports document his "miracles". And anecdotal reports of that nature are not scientific evidence.

I believe Mr Ethan would sleep better at night if he ever chose to remember that fact! Heck maybe then reliable media (much more so than his own self promoting blogs) such as the Globe or N. Enquirer would voice an interested in his "writings"
Best
Jim

 

[Lou0178]

Really Jesus never existed, LMAO. Those who make such a proclamation in spite of what the overwhelming evidence to the contrary rarely have any other objective but self promotion and Etham is certainly no exception. The fact is those of similar ilk referred to as "naysayers", receive a disproportionate amount of media attention because of their "progressive" nonparty line agenda.

I'm mean it's absurd the number of single point arguments like "prove me wrong" or ad-homine evidence on those whom have successfully rebutted Ethan's "points of contention" that makes me suspect his next writing will explain why he believes "slavery" or Abe Lincoln also never existed!

Moreover to use the much less than objective Mr Hoffman as support for his position on the Jesus issue is like the cat pronouncing the kettle is black!

I suspect since both are proclaimed atheists what they really despise is the connection of Jesus with a deity! Why? "Eliminating" the existence of the former enables the denial of the latter!

The fact is these are separate issues. That is, whether Jesus was directly connected with God in either a genotypical or phenotypical sense because if such could be proven (which it can not) being an atheist would be difficult indeed and defy a sense of reason, IMO.

One can deny Jesus performed miracles on a legitimate scientific basis, primarily because only anecdotal reports document his "miracles". And anecdotal reports are not evidence period. I believe Mr Ethan would sleep better at night if he ever chose to remember that fact! Heck maybe then reliable media (much more so than his own self promoting blogs) such as the Globe or N. Enquirer would voice an interested in his "writings"
Best
Jim

What part of there being no evidence don't you get?

 

[Lou0178]

You guys keep saying that I am dismissing evidence. I am saying I have already researched this issue, and I found no evidence, as did Richard Carrier. Now either you want to listen, or read the links I have posted, or you don't. Carrier is going to change many people's preconceived notions about Jesus, and quick.

 

[Lou0178]

Another great site from someone different. http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm

 

[IronCore]

you guys are missing the whole point... Lou is right... the WHOLE WORLD is a victim of the best hoax ever known to man kind... Jesus never existed... WOW... thanks lou... your right... we are all just a bunch of dumbasses... Thanks for enlightening us!

 

[Lou0178]

 

[Lou0178]

 

[Stumpy]

you guys are missing the whole point... Lou is right... the WHOLE WORLD is a victim of the best hoax ever known to man kind... Jesus never existed... WOW... thanks lou... your right... we are all just a bunch of dumbasses... Thanks for enlightening us!

Thank fk for that, see...didn't hurt to accept the truth, Well done Lou on showing them the light. There, that was all sorted easily enough. (yes I'm aware he's being sarcastic )

 

[Docd187123]

You guys keep saying that I am dismissing evidence. I am saying I have already researched this issue, and I found no evidence, as did Richard Carrier. Now either you want to listen, or read the links I have posted, or you don't. Carrier is going to change many people's preconceived notions about Jesus, and quick.

 

[IronCore]

Well I'm going on the fact that the bible was pieced together at the Council of Nicea. Also, only 7 of the 13 Epistles are thought to be written by Paul.HISTORY[h=1]Forgeries in the Bible's New Testament?[/h]MAY 18, 2011 05:26 PM ET // BY ROSSELLA LORENZI

Nearly half of the New Testament is a forgery, according to a provocative new book that charges the Apostle Paul authored only a fraction of the letters attributed to him and the Apostle Peter wrote nothing.Written by Bart Ehrman, a former evangelical Christian and now agnostic professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, the book claims to unveil "one of the most unsettling ironies of the early Christian tradition": the use of deception to promote the truth."The Bible not only contains untruths of accidental mistakes. It also contains what almost anyone today would call lies," Ehrman writes in "Forged: Writing in the Name of God — Why the Bible’s Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are."[h=2]NEWS: God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible — Almost[/h]According to the biblical scholar, at least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries, while only seven of the 13 epistles attributed to Paul were probably written by him."Virtually all scholars agree that seven of the Pauline letters are authentic: Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians and Philemon," says Ehrman.Individuals claiming to be Paul wrote 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, 2 Thessalonians, Ephesians and Colossians, he adds.Contradictory views, discrepancies in the language and the choice of words among the books attributed to Paul are all evidence of this forgery, the author asserts.For example, Ehrman’s analysis of the book of Ephesians shows that the text, filled with long Greek sentences, doesn’t match with Paul’s peculiar Greek writing style, made of short sentences.Moreover, the content of what the author says "stands at odds with Paul’s own thought, but is in line with the Ephesians," writes Ehrman.The biblical scholar, who also challenges the authenticity of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and John, disputes the assumption that the Apostle Peter wrote the Epistles of Peter or anything else.[h=2]NEWS: Was the Last Supper a Day Earlier?[/h]Unlike Paul, Peter, a fisherman raised in rural Palestine, was most certainly illiterate. So was the Apostle John, who could have not written the Gospel bearing his name, says Ehrman.[h=2]DNEWS VIDEO: DA VINCI'S OUTLINE IN THE LAST SUPPER?[/h]But why would an author claim to be an Apostle when he wasn’t? The answer is pretty obvious, according to the scholar.In the early centuries of the church, Christians felt under attack from all sides. "They were in conflict with Jews and pagans over the validity of their religion … but the hottest debates were with other Christians, as they argued over the right thing to believe and the rights ways to live," said Ehrman.Thus Christians aiming to authorize views they wanted others to accept wrote in the name of the Apostles, "fabricating, falsifying and forging documents," says Ehrman."If your name was Jehoshaphat and no one had any idea who you were, you could not very well sign your own name to the book," explains Ehrman."No one would take the Gospel of Jehoshaphat seriously. If you wanted someone to read it, you called yourself Peter. Or Thomas. Or James. In other words, you lied about who you really were," Ehrman concludes.According to the scholar, the idea that "writing in the name of another" was a common, accepted practice in antiquity is wrong. Forgery was considered just as deceitful, inappropriate and wrong as it is today.[h=2]NEWS: Jesus' Great-Grandmother Identified[/h]As expected, the book has raised a heated debate."The book is more provocative than insightful," writes the Catholic Herald.Conceding that "some New Testament books probably were not written by the people traditionally assigned as authors," the Catholic website remarks that Ehrman "barely mentions the concept of oral tradition.""So even if a specific letter was not done by Peter or Paul, it could well have been written by someone drawing from the oral tradition passed down by one or the other," according to the Herald.

Wait ...Wait... wait... so THIS is fact because YOU believe the guy that wrote it...simply because you WANT to believe it? My friend... this is nothing more than speculation...and not even GOOD speculation at that. If you dont want to believe in God and follow Christ then that is your choice... but to say that Jesus Christ never existed is simply foolish...

 

[graniteman]

Hmmm... Let me try one other approach since the 100's of Proffesors are wrong and you and this carrier guy have discovered the truth.

Lou, Following your reasoning wouldn't Jews be a Fairy tell and not exist also? I mean their entire History is in and from The Bible. Ask yourself this would jesus and the Apostles face the torture and agonizing death they faced for a lie, hoax or joke? What did they gain, they lived like ppaupers and died at the hands of The Romans and Jews and these deaths weren't like nowdays , no drugs. Some were nailed to crosses, stoned to death, wipped to shreds 1st , The Romans had made excution a long and painful process. I think they would have said ''hey wait guys, I was jus kiddin''!!!

 

[IronCore]

What about Mohamed? Did he exist?