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Women and AI's-your thoughts and experiences

chicken_hawk

chicken_hawk

MuscleHead
Oct 28, 2010
718
149
#1
I have scoured my favorite boards and databases to find info on this subject and it appears little exists...? I have found a bunch on women and gear, but why not AI's. The reason I ask is because I was considering putting my wife on some to help with her goals and loss of her stubborn fat (she is doin her best, but after 3 kids her mid section is holding on). Now some things I do know is that I and other competitors use AI's for helping lose stubborn fat. Adex only cuts about half of estrogen while mildly raising test. This seams like a good option for my wife who is 35 and healthy, but I dunno for sure.

Hawk

PS- if the thought of this seams outrageous than read this link: http://www.theironden.com/female-anabolics-meds/259-testosterone-female-body-composition.html
 
SHINE

SHINE

MuscleHead
Oct 11, 2010
5,047
599
#2
IPL may be able to give you some insight on this, I do know some of them use nolva to help fat around the hips and thighs.
 
Ms.Wetback

Ms.Wetback

VIP Lady Member
Sep 27, 2010
1,599
118
#3
A main issue using them is the massive rebound many experience.
I have never used them and have never seen a reason to.
 
Ms.Wetback

Ms.Wetback

VIP Lady Member
Sep 27, 2010
1,599
118
#5
For clarification how would this differ from AAS?

Hawk
With women you don't really shut down any test production so recovery is a lot easier. If you go and shut down or block estrogen then once it starts back up you risk over production and increased fat gain. Again, I have never used any because if some of the stories people I know have told me. Same goes for T3 for me, won't touch it.
 
SHINE

SHINE

MuscleHead
Oct 11, 2010
5,047
599
#6
Like I Posted once? with aromasin estrogen rebound is minimal if any at all.

But checking hormonal balance and hormone levels is a good place to start.
 
sassy69

sassy69

VIP Member
Aug 16, 2011
1,066
392
#7
Use of AIs (broadly including both nolvadex as SERM ... selective estrogen receptor modulator and AIs... aromatase inhibitors such as adex or aromasin) for "fat loss" is just a bad strategy. Its not a maintenance protocol because extended use is generally just say "sure, bring on early menopause, no problem". As the OP mentioned, he sees it used for competition prep. The context is "specific end date, don't expect to maintain results and assume some sort of rebound". It is also a support to an already extremely targeted diet & training schedule. For your avg "I wanna lose some fat in those estrogen-areas" - they are probably not following a strict and already results-producing diet & training protocol (and I mean more than "I eat clean and train"). Further they are probably not going to be in the mindset of getting good results and then letting it go after a certain day, plus a rebound.

Adex & aromasin in particular can be very hard on the use in terms of dried out / brittle feeling joints due to estrogen suppression (similar to winny actually) and also if it is not monitored very closely (i.e. the person is very in tune w/ their body and accepts the adjustments of whatever happens when you manipulate estrogen),can result in some nasty menopause-like sides including hot flashes, etc.

Not saying people can't experiment, but understand what you're doing - essentially shutting down estrogen. You can't pick & choose the results & sides you want - and when you come off, there's a chance of rebound (the whole rebound thing is not well understood in terms of published research so it is mostly going to be anecodotal info from the internet, most likely in not well-monitored situations where the user is in tune w/ her body and able to deal w/ the results instead of just OMG... HATE IT... FUCKED ME UP.. REBOUND... GOT DEPRESSED... ATE EVERYTHING IN SITE... NOW EVEN FATTER...),and at the end of the day, you no longer have the estrogen suppression in place and the estrogen-pattern fat depositing continues as it did naturally prior to the AI use. In the extreme, early menopause can kick in and then you have the other issue of trying to get your estrogen started up again (if you're still in your child bearing years). As much as women have learned to hate estrogen, it is still one of the basic things that make us up and has its place in creating balance (in moods, in ability to build muscle, in support of joints, etc. etc etc). You can never pick & choose the results & sides you want or don't want just to "lose weight".
 
XMAN

XMAN

Member
Nov 6, 2011
27
0
#8
i know that women can benefit from serms like nolva as it blocks the receptors and may end up losing fat and water and there is a rebound effect but can be manageable like sassy said, but the issue here is with AI's, u know aromataze inhibitors work on binding with the aromataze enzyme and stop it's action that transform androgens to estrogens in men, but in women their main source of sex hormones r the estrogen that r produced from their ovaries , i can't see how an AI would affect them in anyway, AI's use in women is only after menopause when their ovaries dried and stop producing eggs. and their only estrogens source is from the very small amount of testosterone produced from the adrenal gland this is when women start to have a masculine pattern of hormone secretion, and when a woman have breast cancer and too much developed and when nolva or other serms failed to maintain it or reduce it then doctors add an AI to eradicate all estrogens to try to stop the tumor in a desperate way.
so for pre-menopausal woman AI's have no use, it won't have any significant effect.
 
SHINE

SHINE

MuscleHead
Oct 11, 2010
5,047
599
#9
i know that women can benefit from serms like nolva as it blocks the receptors and may end up losing fat and water and there is a rebound effect but can be manageable like sassy said, but the issue here is with AI's, u know aromataze inhibitors work on binding with the aromataze enzyme and stop it's action that transform androgens to estrogens in men, but in women their main source of sex hormones r the estrogen that r produced from their ovaries , i can't see how an AI would affect them in anyway, AI's use in women is only after menopause when their ovaries dried and stop producing eggs. and their only estrogens source is from the very small amount of testosterone produced from the adrenal gland this is when women start to have a masculine pattern of hormone secretion, and when a woman have breast cancer and too much developed and when nolva or other serms failed to maintain it or reduce it then doctors add an AI to eradicate all estrogens to try to stop the tumor in a desperate way.
so for pre-menopausal woman AI's have no use, it won't have any significant effect.

Cause in a normally functioning premenopausal woman, the majority of estrogens are made in the ovaries from pregnenolone/progesterone and/or from androgens, Ovaries just don't directly produce estrogen.

After menopause, most estrogens are made in body fat from male hormones and some are still being made by the ovaries and the adrenals

aromatase in the ovaries doing it's job and through out the body.
(estrone,estradiol,estriol)

for those learning Chemo & you the Journey starts with pregnenolone having been derived from cholesterol. The flow of hormones then progresses from pregnenolone along one of the two major pathways: one to the left and down throught the adrenal DHEA pathway, or straight down through progesterone in both the ovarian and adrenal glands. Both pathways lead to what we call metabolic end points. Aldosterone, cortisol, and the estrogens are the final stops, or metabolic points, on the steroid hormone pathways.

now you look at progesterone it however is one specific hormone where as with estrogen there are several and I mentioned a few. But there are derivatives and metabolites such as 17a-OH.progesterone that have unique functions or actions that are not, stricktly speaking ,due to progesterone.


Example & One metabolite (produced in the liver's metabolization of progesterone is allopregnanolone, which , if present in sufficient amounts , has an anesthetic effect on brain cells. Affecting moods and being a neuro steroid.
 
Last edited:
XMAN

XMAN

Member
Nov 6, 2011
27
0
#10
Cause in a normally functioning premenopausal woman, the majority of estrogens are made in the ovaries from pregnenolone/progesterone and/or from androgens, Ovaries just don't directly produce estrogen.

After menopause, most estrogens are made in body fat from male hormones and some are still being made by the ovaries and the adrenals

aromatase in the ovaries doing it's job and through out the body.
(estrone,estradiol,estriol)

for those learning Chemo & you the Journey starts with pregnenolone having been derived from cholesterol. The flow of hormones then progresses from pregnenolone along one of the two major pthways: one to the left and down throught the adrenal DHEA pathway, or straight down through progesterone in both the ovarian and adrenal glands. Both pathways lead to what we call metabolic end points. Aldosterone, cortisol, and the estrogens are the final stops, or metabolic points, on the steroid hormone pathways.

now you look at progesterone it however is one specific hormone where as with estrogen there are several and I mentioned a few. But there are derivatives and metabolites such as 17a-OH.progesterone that have unique functions or actions that are not, stricktly speaking ,due to progesterone.


Example & One metabolite (produced in the liver's metabolization of progesterone is allopregnanolone, which , if present in sufficient amounts , has an anesthetic effect on brain cells. Affecting moods and being a neuro steroid.
thx for the clarification i didn't know that there's an aromataze activity in the ovaries, now it looks logic.
 
Jenner

Jenner

LeanMachine
Jan 9, 2012
2,457
550
#11
With women you don't really shut down any test production so recovery is a lot easier. If you go and shut down or block estrogen then once it starts back up you risk over production and increased fat gain. Again, I have never used any because if some of the stories people I know have told me. Same goes for T3 for me, won't touch it.
This! I considered using Nolva but realized what's the point when it just comes back and at x2 maybe if not used properly. I have also heard horror stories of rebound...not worth it.
 
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