Tamoxifen versus Aromatase inhibitors

[Glycomann]

Seems to me that AIs as a class are more trouble then they are worth. Mind you I keep them on hand in case I need to put out an unexpected fire. We all knowz that nolva does not decrease estrogen but does block it in a tissue selective fashion. I use it for most applications were estrogen control is needed. It seems to stimulate the testes a little, does not hammer HDL (even improve it), and does seem to give a littler water retention relief without joint issues. On the other hand Adex and Letro hammer estrogen, destroy HDL and kill my joints. The only way to use them really seems to do blood work to dial them in. Mess them up and over the long term you are going to be flat and estrogen deprived. Maybe even osteoporotic if long enough. We need estrogen for proper joint health, brain function, and anabolism. Thoughts?

 

[barbellbeast]

but...Tamoxifen is the one that is classified as a carcinogen. Health aside, it's also selectively estrogenic, have you ever tried cutting down while using it and notice that your hips and glutes just don't seem to lean down proportional to the rest of your body? It's likely the Nolva. Everyone will stick to what they're comfortable with, everything seems to have it's own toxicity

 

[Kluso]

but...Tamoxifen is the one that is classified as a carcinogen. Health aside, it's also selectively estrogenic, have you ever tried cutting down while using it and notice that your hips and glutes just don't seem to lean down proportional to the rest of your body? It's likely the Nolva. Everyone will stick to what they're comfortable with, everything seems to have it's own toxicity

I thought tamoxifen was a cancer drug? To fight breast cancer? How you gonna fight cancer with cancer?

 

[Kluso]

Seems to me that AIs as a class are more trouble then they are worth. Mind you I keep them on hand in case I need to put out an unexpected fire. We all knowz that nolva does not decrease estrogen but does block it in a tissue selective fashion. I use it for most applications were estrogen control is needed. It seems to stimulate the testes a little, does not hammer HDL (even improve it), and does seem to give a littler water retention relief without joint issues. On the other hand Adex and Letro hammer estrogen, destroy HDL and kill my joints. The only way to use them really seems to do blood work to dial them in. Mess them up and over the long term you are going to be flat and estrogen deprived. Maybe even osteoporotic if long enough. We need estrogen for proper joint health, brain function, and anabolism. Thoughts?

Definitely like nolva better to fight gyno. But it always seemed to hinder muscle growth for me. No proof of that. I just try not to use it unless I have to. Rather not.

 

[myosin]

Definitely like nolva better to fight gyno. But it always seemed to hinder muscle growth for me. No proof of that. I just try not to use it unless I have to. Rather not.

It limits/lowers IGF.

 

[searay]

If my nippies get sore or itchy I'll get on the Nolva as necessary. Estrogen also makes test more effective. If your on TRT you should only need like 10mg nolva day if you have itchy or sore nips. If your on high doses of test you may need as much as 20mg day plus 1mg dex every 2-3 days to get rid of excess estrogen.

 

[MR. BMJ]

I think Nolva is more forgiving than most AI's if you take too much, especially if you need them for lower doses. I use it more often these days....well, it's been a long time, but i'd use it as my first choice with the lower doses I do. For higher doses, I feel AI's have their place(s).

I think AI's are great if you can get the dosing down and not take too much.

It's hard to give a more accurate dose with AI's since everybody varies to a degree on their need for one.

 

[Ogre717]

I've always had AIs "on hand" and honestly never really needed them.. I'm not a fan of running an ancillary unless it's needed. Maybe it's because I've always kept the doses/ compounds reasonable, Maybe I've just been lucky..

 

[Glycomann]

but...Tamoxifen is the one that is classified as a carcinogen. Health aside, it's also selectively estrogenic, have you ever tried cutting down while using it and notice that your hips and glutes just don't seem to lean down proportional to the rest of your body? It's likely the Nolva. Everyone will stick to what they're comfortable with, everything seems to have it's own toxicity

Never had hip fatty girly problem. Too manly. Those carcinogenic claims were based on women with long standing and eventually mostly recalcitrant breast cancer. Do you think your physiologic state resembles that? How many of the old school BBers, all of whom used tamoxifen probably many massively, died of or had cancer? In relation to a control population if one or two did developed cancer what kind and how does that compare to the control population. Pretty much ziltch. But hey maybe you prefer AIs and are wiling to deal with really bad lipids, going completely flat, no gains since no estrogen and joint pain if you don't dial it in with blood work. Different biology different folks different preferences. IMO AIs are rought with peril and I only use them to put out fires. I balance my estrogenic compounds so i don't need anything for the most part but if something might tip the scale i will use nolva, which is much easier to use and much more gentle on my physiology.

 

[Glycomann]

Definitely like nolva better to fight gyno. But it always seemed to hinder muscle growth for me. No proof of that. I just try not to use it unless I have to. Rather not.

I guess that is some brologic. Maybe that has some truth to it. I never really noticed but in some interview that Ronnie did with Platz he stated such as reported to Ronnie by Balco researchers. Seemed to lower IGF-1 a tad.

 

[Glycomann]

I think Nolva is more forgiving than most AI's if you take too much, especially if you need them for lower doses. I use it more often these days....well, it's been a long time, but i'd use it as my first choice with the lower doses I do. For higher doses, I feel AI's have their place(s).

I think AI's are great if you can get the dosing down and not take too much.

It's hard to give a more accurate dose with AI's since everybody varies to a degree on their need for one.

That's probably true. If I was so inclined to do 1500 mg of test and another gram of stuff that would probably require an AI to control.

 

[genetic freak]

I haven't ran an AI in forever. I ran caber the first time I pushed the tren up, because someone said I needed to. Yep, not needed. Don't do that anymore. Did the same thing with A-dex, because someone told me when I was running a gram of test I would need it. Yep, not needed. At the doses I run gear anymore I don't even keep any on hand.