Nolvadex for cutting

[KetoMan]

My question is, can female athletes use Nolvadex to make their legs harder? If so, what should be the proper dosage

Thanx

 

[Pbuainain]

No they should not, unless you want to send them into early menopause.

 

[KetoMan]

Wow! Thank you

 

[Jenner]

I don't know about making their legs harder but I am using it to keep water gain off..if it's done correctly and for short periods of time there should be no issues.

 

[sassy69]

I don't know about making their legs harder but I am using it to keep water gain off..if it's done correctly and for short periods of time there should be no issues.

This. Keep in mind the basic effects of the different hormones you are looking to manipulate. Testosterone is geared towards promoting lean muscle mass & particularly the more androgenic / non-aromatizing compounds will promote hardness. Estrogen tends to promote 'system protective' effects in terms of water retention & fat gain in the midsection / hips area - basically to protect the fetus. Nolva is a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) that acts to basically disconnect the estrogen process, to reduce the effect of estrogen - one of which is fat & water retention in the mid-section / thighs area. Nolva would, in a round about way, contribute to 'hardening' of legs if look at it as 'less softening'.

It is not good to suppress estrogen for a long period of time as the body interprets this as a reason to continue to suppress it and essentially decides it is now in early menopause. Guidance is don't use longer than 8 weeks max.

 

[KetoMan]

Thanks Sassy, great info!

 

[Jenner]

This. Keep in mind the basic effects of the different hormones you are looking to manipulate. Testosterone is geared towards promoting lean muscle mass & particularly the more androgenic / non-aromatizing compounds will promote hardness. Estrogen tends to promote 'system protective' effects in terms of water retention & fat gain in the midsection / hips area - basically to protect the fetus. Nolva is a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) that acts to basically disconnect the estrogen process, to reduce the effect of estrogen - one of which is fat & water retention in the mid-section / thighs area. Nolva would, in a round about way, contribute to 'hardening' of legs if look at it as 'less softening'.

It is not good to suppress estrogen for a long period of time as the body interprets this as a reason to continue to suppress it and essentially decides it is now in early menopause. Guidance is don't use longer than 8 weeks max.

Never looked at it like that..Thanks!

How long would you suggest in between uses?

 

[SHINE]

Not actualy surpressing it your only blocking it with Nolva, nolva will boost natural estrogen up high though giving menopause type effects, shbg increase , test increase . (although a bit different than *actual menopause* still nasty hormonal imbalance)

come off nolva fast the body sees high estrogen then at The HPA and then LH is greatly lowered in response to that ,
first estrogen rebound ,High and then over all lower hormones giving menopause type effects in the body.

Some have a slugish HPA and yes the body can remain in low hormonal levels for a long time with poor recovery if PCT is not done right or to long.

Also long term nolva use is bad for the reason below, sass is right short cycles only. Ghrp-2 or some of the other GH boosting peptides might be a good idea for pct after using nolva imo.

not only does tamoxifen suppress GH, it also directly suppresses IGF-1 gene expression independently of any lowering of GH

[Cancer Res. 1993 Apr 15;53(8):1727-30. Related Articles, Links

In vivo inhibition of insulin-like growth factor I gene expression by tamoxifen.

Huynh HT, Tetenes E, Wallace L, Pollak M.

Department of Medicine, McGill University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

Tamoxifen, a partial antagonist to the estrogen receptor, is widely used in the treatment of breast cancer and is currently being evaluated as a breast cancer preventative agent in large-scale clinical trials. Recent clinical research has demonstrated that tamoxifen administration is associated with a reduction of serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) concentration. We demonstrate here that tamoxifen, when administered in an in vivo experimental system previously used to demonstrate its cytostatic effect on breast cancer cell proliferation, inhibits the expression of the IGF-I gene in common target organs for breast cancer metastasis. Furthermore, while our prior experimental studies have demonstrated an inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on growth hormone output, we show here for the first time that the suppression of IGF-I gene expression associated with tamoxifen administration is in part a consequence of a pituitary-independent action of the drug. Because IGF-I is a potent mitogen for breast cancer cells, this newly described activity of tamoxifen may contribute to its antineoplastic properties, particularly with regard to inhibition of metastasis seen both in animal models and clinically.

 

[sassy69]

^^ These are really good points. It really goes to show that you can't take a bunch of stuff because this produces this result and that produces that result so just add them to the stack. Your hormones are SOOOO fundamental to 'who' you are and 'how' you are. We honestly don't really understand the full extent of impact of suppressing (or to be accurate - blocking) something on everything else. We know that the body operates on a vast biochemical balance of push / pull and its probably a safe bet to assume everything gets kinda fucked up in some way when you try to manipulate things.

What is interesting about estrogen is that women hate it because it promotes bodyfat & water retention - that's like our natural state. Of course guys don't like it either - but it still is required to keep our skin from drying out, our hair from falling out, obviously, our ability to reproduce, our ability to maintain "feminine" features, our moods, etc. It also impacts your GH levels. How important is GH to everything we want in "fitness"? Critical.

Anyway ... great excerpt and thanks for sharing Shine!

 

[sassy69]

Never looked at it like that..Thanks!

How long would you suggest in between uses?

A LONG time. Don't ever look at it as a maintenance protocol. Sure you'll hear about some FBBs who have been on it for years, but they are also paying for it w/ all the features of early menopause. It may be acceptable for them, but I imagine it opens up the doors for the chance of all sorts of other tangential issues as you get older. Estrogen is there for a reason. Rely on diet & training to manage your bodyfat. Nolva should be looked at only in terms of a very near term and very distinct goal w/ a clear end date. So basically a really good example is the scenario of a competition prep or a photo shoot or some thing that has a clear end date and you assume you're going to go thru a recovery / rebound when its over, to allow your body to find homeostasis again.

In the specific situation where you might have back-to-back event, say separated by up to a month, you can push the nolva to 8-10 weeks. But just like the stress of doing multiple shows back to back, allow good recovery time, or else pick your primary target show and focus on that as your end date relative to the nolva schedule instead of trying to optimize every show.

Otherwise, I'd honestly keep it to like 6 months between. I'm not recommending using it every 6 months, but rather just plan your cycles ahead of time, don't pop them randomly and keep them for a specific purpose, and then schedule time for your body to recover and rely on diet & training for bodyfat management.

 

[Jenner]

A LONG time. Don't ever look at it as a maintenance protocol. Sure you'll hear about some FBBs who have been on it for years, but they are also paying for it w/ all the features of early menopause. It may be acceptable for them, but I imagine it opens up the doors for the chance of all sorts of other tangential issues as you get older. Estrogen is there for a reason. Rely on diet & training to manage your bodyfat. Nolva should be looked at only in terms of a very near term and very distinct goal w/ a clear end date. So basically a really good example is the scenario of a competition prep or a photo shoot or some thing that has a clear end date and you assume you're going to go thru a recovery / rebound when its over, to allow your body to find homeostasis again.

In the specific situation where you might have back-to-back event, say separated by up to a month, you can push the nolva to 8-10 weeks. But just like the stress of doing multiple shows back to back, allow good recovery time, or else pick your primary target show and focus on that as your end date relative to the nolva schedule instead of trying to optimize every show.

Otherwise, I'd honestly keep it to like 6 months between. I'm not recommending using it every 6 months, but rather just plan your cycles ahead of time, don't pop them randomly and keep them for a specific purpose, and then schedule time for your body to recover and rely on diet & training for bodyfat management.

Got it, thanks for the info., you are always so helpful! I'm tapering this week, as next week will be 8.