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New to Transdermals

SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,083
1,256
#1
Alright, so let' say my buddy the scientist is getting some raw powder base of testosterone and trenbolone. He wants to do some experiments in the name of science on his stable of mice, but his mice have had so many injections that they look like swiss cheese under a microscope. So he is going to make some transdermal aas and do his experiments using that.

My buddy is looking at buying so Plo-gel to use as the transdermal carrier and solvent. He has heard that it is probably the best available. Now lets assume he has a certain amount of Plo-gel and a certain amount of test base. How much test base does he want to use per X amount of plo-gel? Does he dissolve it or suspend it? How does he measure it once it's made? What kind of container do his other scientist buddies us to store/measure the td aas?

i.e. - If my friend mixes 10 grams of test base with 10 grams of plo-gel, he'd have a concentration of 1 gram of test per every 2 grams. Would he actually weigh the gel on a scale before applying it? How is that effective or efficient?

Clearly my friend the scientist is confused and his mice are getting weaker and smaller by the minute. Can you help me, I mean, the scientist, out?

DU, goldy, tommyguns, any other vets who use td, I'm looking at you..... :cool:

Thanks guys.
 
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

Senior Moderators
Staff Member
Dec 25, 2010
4,644
1,919
#3
Yah, Basskiller has good info on it. I've found that the displacement isn't quite right on Basskiller's site, but it's close enough.

What I do is load up a 60ml syringe from the back. For 60ml of test base at 100mg/ml you want 6g test base powder, and about 55-57ml of PJU. It's about 1ml/mg, so that makes it kinda nice.

I place the entire 6g of powder in my mortar, and add about 6g of PJU, and mix. Then I add 12g of PJU and mix, and then 24g, etc. After it's mixed, I take the back off the 60ml syringe, and with the front end open to allow air to escape, I slowly fill from the back. It takes several minutes, but it's not too bad.

DU has a great write up someplace, and maybe he'll post it up.
 
SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,083
1,256
#4
Thanks goldy and tommyguns, I appreciate the rapid responses. I think I have, I mean, I'm sure my buddy now has the information he needs, but I'm sure he'll have more questions like rookie chemists do. If DU would post his write-up that would be great too.
 
jhotsauce7

jhotsauce7

TID Board Of Directors
Jan 18, 2011
2,606
497
#5
Basskillers method is a good estimate..including an extra ten percent to account for loss. There will be some. Two most Important steps...titration of powder ...the finer the more absorption you will get and the loading of the 60 ml syringe can be very annoying. If you get air bubbles you can cap the end and tap on a hard surface...they will work out eventually. Also be sure to get the right topical syringes. Some have end caps and some do not. Be sure you get a decent scale to .01 and a good mortar and pestal. I got both for under fourty bucks
 
jhotsauce7

jhotsauce7

TID Board Of Directors
Jan 18, 2011
2,606
497
#6
Also I used 8.125 g raw for 125 mg ml titrated for ten or fifteen min half at a time... got a nice fine powder that left minimal residue on the skin after application
 
SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,083
1,256
#7
Is it not possible to load my final product into 15ml vials with eye dropper lids? Seems like it would be easier to just suck up 1 ml into the eye dropper and then squeeze onto the prepared spot.

Also, has anybody figured out a better way to load the 60ml syringe? Or found a better storage vessel for the 60ml of product?

Thanks in advance guys, I'm really looking forward to trying this, I just want to be able to get consistent blood levels of the chosen product.
 
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

Senior Moderators
Staff Member
Dec 25, 2010
4,644
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#8
Is it not possible to load my final product into 15ml vials with eye dropper lids? Seems like it would be easier to just suck up 1 ml into the eye dropper and then squeeze onto the prepared spot.

Also, has anybody figured out a better way to load the 60ml syringe? Or found a better storage vessel for the 60ml of product?

Thanks in advance guys, I'm really looking forward to trying this, I just want to be able to get consistent blood levels of the chosen product.
If I'm understanding your question, it won't work, because the PJU carrier is too thick. It spreads on your skin with almost the consistency of toothpaste.
 
jhotsauce7

jhotsauce7

TID Board Of Directors
Jan 18, 2011
2,606
497
#9
you could load it into Browsing TUBES
these aluminum ointment tubes, especially if you needed to travel. You would be ball parking how much 1 ML was at that point though so it would be less and less accurate.
 
Dangling Unit

Dangling Unit

VIP Member
Jan 2, 2011
673
75
#10
I'll try to find my write-up. I know it's on CS, but I don't have access to it, because Test Freak is a scheming piece-of-shit, and has a face shaped like a bowling ball.

All the above, except there's no need to account for 10% loss, because where is it going? If you lose 10% powder, you'll lose 10% vehicle, too. It doesn't make sense.

After you measure your powder, make sure to use the pestle to grind the powder as fine as you can and scrape the powder from it when you're done. The finer you get, the smoother the compound is and more absorption you get. I push and twist when grinding it down.

I don't have the displacement figures with me, but it's probably around 0.97 for testosterone base.

Do not exceed 10% concentration. 10% is 100-mg/mL. The lower your concentration, the higher the absorption. Granted, it will take more vehicle for the lower dosages, but you'll get better results. Absorption v. concentration is not a linear curve. It's exponential. A lot of compounding pharmacies don't like to mix the higher concentrations. I have my pharmacist mix my testosterone at 60-mg/mL.

I use a 1" frosting spatula to load the syringes. Once you get your technique down, it goes quickly and you can get an air-free batch consistantly. I can load an air-free 60-mL syringe in 5-minutes. When I first started, I dreaded loading it, because I would get air bubbles and it would take me 20-minutes to load 60-mL.
 
Last edited:
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

Senior Moderators
Staff Member
Dec 25, 2010
4,644
1,919
#11
Posted by DU on CS many moons ago:

It seems there isn't a post on making topicals. Since I'm knee-deep in it, and receiving numerous PMs about how to make them, I thought I'd put my thoughts in a separate post.

I've used both VanPen and PHLOJel Ultra (PJU) as vehicles and the PJU is superior to the VanPen, so I will only address PJU. I seem to be getting a 60% to 70% absorption efficiency. This is a very educated guess on the absorption, with blood work to back it up, albeit still a guess. Using the PJU is as easy as measuring out the powder and vehicle, and mixing. 1-mL PJU is very close to weighing 1-g. It's so close, that it's not worth using anything other than 1.

The powder has a very different displacement when mixed as a topical vs. injectable. The list will grow as I experiment further, but here is what I have so far:

Trenbolone acetate (TA) 89.98%
Drostanolone propionate (DP) 89.98%
Testosterone base 95%

Therefore, to make 60-mL of 100-mg/mL of TA, you would need 6-g TA and 54.6-g PJU (60-mL)-(60-mL)*(100-mg)*(0.001-mg/g)*.8998:

Weigh the TA and put into a mortar. Some people say to add in an additional 10% for waste, for some damn reason. This thinking is ludicrous. There's nothing to get wasted, so save your powder. Using a pestle, grind the powder to a very fine consistency. The longer you spend grinding the hormone down, the smoother your final result. I've noticed it's easier to use a soft touch when grinding it down. If you press hard, the powder gets stuck to the sides and makes the powder clumpy. Using a cake frosting spatula (~1.5" wide),scrape the powder from the sides and bottom of the mortar and the bottom of the pestle.

Weigh out approximately 10-g of the PJU and very carefully place into the mortar. If you haphazardly drop the PJU into the powder, you'll have a dust cloud of TA. Using your spatula, slowly and carefully begin pressing the PJU into the sides of the mortar, titrating the TA with the PJU. Once you've achieved a consistent paste, measure an additional ~10-g PJU. Repeat the titrating process above. Repeat this until you have the appropriate amount of PJU added.

Remove the plunger from the rear of the syringe. Using the spatula (I use the corner side, not the radius),slowly start adding the compound to the rear of the syringe. After every addition, rotate the syringe, so it doesn't fall to one side. Also, after the addition of a small amount of compound, place your finger over the front end of the syringe and gently press the solution into the syringe with the spatula. This will help get rid of any air bubbles you have introduced and create an impression in the middle to add more compound.

Once you have added the entire compound to the syringe (leave the compound flush with the end, otherwise air will get trapped in front of the plunger),gently press the plunger back into the syringe. There is a lip on the inside and you'll feel it pass that. Holding the syringe upright (with the front pointing up),hold your finger over the front end and press the plunger up. Release the pressure from the plunger, and then release your finger from the front of the syringe. You'll notice the compound move up some. After a few times doing this, lightly tap the syringe against the table while rotating it. This will help flatten out the compound. You don't want the compound skewed to one side, because you'll trap air when you're finished. Continue this until the compound is at the front end of the syringe. It's a bit slow doing it this way, but I have yet to have air in my syringes.

I let my compounds sit for a few days before use. If I don't, it feels a little gritty the first few days. Dispense the appropriate amount, rub in, and enjoy the effects of pain-free AAS!
 
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

Senior Moderators
Staff Member
Dec 25, 2010
4,644
1,919
#12
DU's cost comparison analysis: TD vs. brewing.

OK. Bear with me, because I'm going to throw some math out. Let's calculate the cost to prepare an injectable 14-week cycle of 500-mg/w testosterone enanthate dosed at 250-mg/mL - a typical injection cycle.

7-g testosterone enanthate powder @ $2.50/g
0.56-mL BA @ $0.099/mL
5.6-mL BB @ $0.119/mL
16.59-mL GSO @ $0.095/mL
3-vials @ $1.50/ea
28 3-mL syringes with 20-g needles @ $0.29/ea
28 25-g needles @ $0.22/ea
1 150-mL flask @ $3.50/ea
1 scale @ $48.95/ea
1 10-mL syringe @ $0.30/ea
2 20-g needles @ $0.145/ea
2 0.20-micrometer filter @ $4.00/ea

For an injectable cycle of 14-weeks, 250-mg/2xw, dosed at 250-mg/mL, testosterone enanthate, it would run a total of $99.62. Keep in mind that most of the items listed above cannot be purchased in the exact quantity you need; therefore, the cost will be higher and you will have extra supplies.

Be aware that you're only receiving 174.76-mg testosterone with every injection (minus the ester). With a topical, we can use the base products and simply rub on every day. We could compare the costs of injecting every day for 14-weeks, but is that really practical?

Now for a topical cycle of 14-weeks of 349.52-mg/w of testosterone dosed at 100-mg/mL. We'll use a conservative figure of 60% absorption efficiency. Therefore, 582.53-mg/w will need to be applied.

8.156-g testosterone base powder @ $1.50/g
81.56-mL PJU @ $0.20/mL
1 spatula @ $5.00/ea
1 mortar and pestle @ $15.00/ea
2 60-mL syringes @ $0.45/ea
1 scale @ $48.95/ea

For a topical cycle of 14-weeks, 83.22-mg/ed, dosed at 100-mg/mL, testosterone, it would run a total of $98.26. Keep in mind that a couple items listed above cannot be purchased in the exact quantity you need; therefore, the cost will be higher and you will have extra supplies.

The costs are virtually identical, but if we only took into account the consumables, topicals would be much cheaper. You also don't have the bullshit of injecting to deal with and having sore body parts. It takes me less than 30-seconds from start to finish with topicals, whereas with injectables, it takes a good 15-minutes from start to finish.
 
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