Milligrams of test chart
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SHINE
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- Oct 11, 2010
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If you do a bit of diging that half-life was originaly done and tested with various esters in rats, which metabolize those esters at alot different rates than humans. The 15 day half-life was an old formula from that study that Approximately each carbon atoms is equal to a half-life of 1.5 days. Therefore a decanoate steroid ester would have a half-life of 15 days (11 carbon atoms * 1.5 days constant). Later studies in human showed a big differencce of half-lives for humans though.
And even then those studies will vary depending on chemical individuality and other factors like the carrier used for the depot.
agh hell doesn't matter 3days I don't think are going to make that damn much difference for pct realy, I guess if you have to be politicaly correct though lol there are plenty of recent abstracts showing the decanoate ester to be shorter in humans.
This study shows 7-12 days of the decanoate ester
Department of Clinical Pharmacology and Kinetics, Organon, Oss, the Netherlands; International Regulatory Affairs, Organon, Oss, the Netherlands; Xendo Laboratories, Groningen, the Netherlands;Focus Clinical Drug Development, Neuss, Germany; International Medical Services, Organon, Oss, the Netherlands.
Pharmacokinetics of nandrolone in serum and urine was investigated in healthy young men after a single intramuscular injection of 50 mg (n = 20), 100 mg (n = 17) or 150 mg (n = 17) nandrolone decanoate. Blood samples were collected pre-dose and for up to 32 days after dosing. In addition, in the 50 and 150 mg groups 24-hours urine samples were collected at pre-dose and during days 1, 7 and 33, and in the 150 mg group additional samples were collected after 3 and 6 months. Serum concentrations and area-under-curve of nandrolone increased proportionally with the dose administered. Peak serum concentration (Cmax) ranged from 2.14 ng/mL in the 50 mg group to 4.26 ng/mL in the 100 mg group and to 5.16 ng/mL in the 150 mg group. Cmax was reached after 30 (50 and 100 mg) and 72 h (150 mg), whereas the terminal half-life was 7-12 days. In urine, pre-dose concentrations of 19-NA and/or 19-NE were detected in 5/37 subjects (14%). In the 50 mg group, 19-NA and/or 19-NE could be detected at least until 33 days after injection in 16/17 subjects (94%). In the 150 mg group of subjects presumed to have not previously used nandrolone, nandrolone metabolites could be detected up to 6 months in 8/12 subjects (67%) for 19-NE to 10/12 subjects (83%) for 19-NA.
SomeStudies done on nandrolone decanoate pharmacokinetics comparing ester, injection volume and injection site demonstrate that even a gluteal decanoate injection of high concentration doesn't yield more than 7-8 days of half-life. Testosterone enanthate injections given in the same concentration (200 mg/ml), dose and injection site, yield 6-7 day half-lives. The difference is not as big as suggested. These numbers taken off the minto studies are the most accurate results imo considering the way this study was done.
IC your assumption is not bad and based on evidence, just recently alot and even the HRT docs are finding varying differences though.
The carbon number x 1.5 days will get you close except esters like Phenylpropionate which completely screw that formula all up , 9 carbons but it's one of those off the wall funny shaped esters and higher number of hydrogens (if my memory serves me correct! lol)
This is a good thread, imo everyone here had good advice on this topic.
and GS damn son nice work there!
And even then those studies will vary depending on chemical individuality and other factors like the carrier used for the depot.
agh hell doesn't matter 3days I don't think are going to make that damn much difference for pct realy, I guess if you have to be politicaly correct though lol there are plenty of recent abstracts showing the decanoate ester to be shorter in humans.
This study shows 7-12 days of the decanoate ester
Department of Clinical Pharmacology and Kinetics, Organon, Oss, the Netherlands; International Regulatory Affairs, Organon, Oss, the Netherlands; Xendo Laboratories, Groningen, the Netherlands;Focus Clinical Drug Development, Neuss, Germany; International Medical Services, Organon, Oss, the Netherlands.
Pharmacokinetics of nandrolone in serum and urine was investigated in healthy young men after a single intramuscular injection of 50 mg (n = 20), 100 mg (n = 17) or 150 mg (n = 17) nandrolone decanoate. Blood samples were collected pre-dose and for up to 32 days after dosing. In addition, in the 50 and 150 mg groups 24-hours urine samples were collected at pre-dose and during days 1, 7 and 33, and in the 150 mg group additional samples were collected after 3 and 6 months. Serum concentrations and area-under-curve of nandrolone increased proportionally with the dose administered. Peak serum concentration (Cmax) ranged from 2.14 ng/mL in the 50 mg group to 4.26 ng/mL in the 100 mg group and to 5.16 ng/mL in the 150 mg group. Cmax was reached after 30 (50 and 100 mg) and 72 h (150 mg), whereas the terminal half-life was 7-12 days. In urine, pre-dose concentrations of 19-NA and/or 19-NE were detected in 5/37 subjects (14%). In the 50 mg group, 19-NA and/or 19-NE could be detected at least until 33 days after injection in 16/17 subjects (94%). In the 150 mg group of subjects presumed to have not previously used nandrolone, nandrolone metabolites could be detected up to 6 months in 8/12 subjects (67%) for 19-NE to 10/12 subjects (83%) for 19-NA.
SomeStudies done on nandrolone decanoate pharmacokinetics comparing ester, injection volume and injection site demonstrate that even a gluteal decanoate injection of high concentration doesn't yield more than 7-8 days of half-life. Testosterone enanthate injections given in the same concentration (200 mg/ml), dose and injection site, yield 6-7 day half-lives. The difference is not as big as suggested. These numbers taken off the minto studies are the most accurate results imo considering the way this study was done.
IC your assumption is not bad and based on evidence, just recently alot and even the HRT docs are finding varying differences though.
The carbon number x 1.5 days will get you close except esters like Phenylpropionate which completely screw that formula all up , 9 carbons but it's one of those off the wall funny shaped esters and higher number of hydrogens (if my memory serves me correct! lol)
This is a good thread, imo everyone here had good advice on this topic.
and GS damn son nice work there!
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PillarofBalance
Strength Pimp
- Feb 27, 2011
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Epic thread bros...
Question I'm left with is if you gotta wait 7 weeks to start PCT why the hell would anyone wanna run that compound? Seems to me more and more that shorter cycles with short esters and front loading is the way to go... Why only run two cycles per year because of the sus, when you can run 4?
Question I'm left with is if you gotta wait 7 weeks to start PCT why the hell would anyone wanna run that compound? Seems to me more and more that shorter cycles with short esters and front loading is the way to go... Why only run two cycles per year because of the sus, when you can run 4?
SHINE
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You don't, look at the half-life of this supper long ester and i'ts the longest release ester at the moment,
600mg shot of buciclate and it would be out of your system in 8 weeks,
even doing a front load with test-decanoate levels will taper down quickly with 350mg weekly shots, most of the exogenous test will be out of your system in 3-4 weeks (in the ball-park guesstimate) don't forget with decanoate each 100mg is only 61mg of actual hormone. Nother thing is don't confuse the metabolites of nandrolone with test. decanoate ester has nothing to do with that. Yes nandrolone metabolites can hang around 6 months.
Perhaps that's why deca sucks to recover from no?
600mg shot of buciclate and it would be out of your system in 8 weeks,
even doing a front load with test-decanoate levels will taper down quickly with 350mg weekly shots, most of the exogenous test will be out of your system in 3-4 weeks (in the ball-park guesstimate) don't forget with decanoate each 100mg is only 61mg of actual hormone. Nother thing is don't confuse the metabolites of nandrolone with test. decanoate ester has nothing to do with that. Yes nandrolone metabolites can hang around 6 months.
Perhaps that's why deca sucks to recover from no?
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SAD
TID Board Of Directors
- Feb 3, 2011
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Some of us "kids" who research our little kid asses off already know this stuff ^^^^^^^, so don't let your head get too big, sensei.
) I don't want to spoil your in-depth revelation, but I will give a brief synopsis and let you clarify all the little details that my measly brain could not hold on to. Basically, the larger the muscle group injected, the higher the peak plasma level. Half-lives will remain nearly identical, but the peak concentration is significantly different between the glutes and the delts, for instance. GS, do you have the charts that we've both seen?
IronCore
Bigger Than MAYO - VIP
- Sep 9, 2010
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Thanks for the follow up shine... I know the ester half lives are only close approximations and you are correct.. .it all depends on where you read it... and more so the person taking it, size weight bf% etc...
GS... While I dont mind "shoving" the half lives... Some may want to take heed... you must still take half life into consideration when planning PCT... No way around it... I can "shove" them because I am of the mind set... PCT is for quitters
And your Peak plasma levels argument is applicable to "one" shot only... The OP was referring to the blood levels peaking and remaining STABLE throughout his cycle... which happens at ~ week 7 with sustanon blends... because there are SEVERAL peaks (One per shot)
Front loading is a good idea but has also been shown to be little more that bro lore...
If I where going to run sust I would be more concerned with BACK loading using prop or Phenylprop.
And (as SaD said) I am pretty sure most of us "kids" here understand that larger muscle groups absorb and propagate the hormones faster than the small ones, thus creating a more efficient peak plasma level. not rocket science...
and you said some other shit too... I just dont feel like typing anymore...
Thank you... drive through!
GS... While I dont mind "shoving" the half lives... Some may want to take heed... you must still take half life into consideration when planning PCT... No way around it... I can "shove" them because I am of the mind set... PCT is for quitters
And your Peak plasma levels argument is applicable to "one" shot only... The OP was referring to the blood levels peaking and remaining STABLE throughout his cycle... which happens at ~ week 7 with sustanon blends... because there are SEVERAL peaks (One per shot)
Front loading is a good idea but has also been shown to be little more that bro lore...
If I where going to run sust I would be more concerned with BACK loading using prop or Phenylprop.
And (as SaD said) I am pretty sure most of us "kids" here understand that larger muscle groups absorb and propagate the hormones faster than the small ones, thus creating a more efficient peak plasma level. not rocket science...
and you said some other shit too... I just dont feel like typing anymore...
Thank you... drive through!
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