Injectable orals and their affects on liver enzymes?

[parttimer]

Obviously the oral route of steroids affects the liver and ast/alt usually goes up. due to the them passing the liver. Does the same hold true when using the same hormone, but injected? I have had elevated levels for years, even when not taking orals, my old Dr said it was due to working out so hard, the damage to the muscle can cause elevated levels. I've been running Glutathione 1g and milk thistle 700mg per day, anything else I can do in order to drop the levels? I'm looking at adding injectable orals to my next cycle if it's not going to worsen the liver values.

 

[Kluso]

So interesting story. I have had slightly elevated liver enzymes also for past few years without using any orals. Dr and I assumed it was fatty liver dispute never getting over 12%BF. Last year I cut hard down to around 8%bf. My liver enzymes came in really good. Middle or the range. Fast forward almost a year later. I ran injectable dbol 50mg 3 days a week for 6 weeks. Two weeks after last injection bloodwork showed slightly elevated liver enzymes again. My gut is rather bloated again like maybe I did gain some visceral fat back. But I will know for sure in a couple days. I just got a sonagram done on liver and all abdominal organs. But if I don’t have a fatty liver then definitely the injectable dbol had a similar effect on liver as taking it orally, for me. Before the constant elevated liver enzymes the only time they would be elevated was while I was taking oral AAS. Keep you posted when I get results.

 

[rawdeal]

There is also something called "ascites," which is excess fluid in the belly, rather than a fatty liver. Doctors often see it with chronic alcohol abuse.

That you describe your liver enzymes as no worse than slightly elevated argues against this. Your use of the term "bloating" caught my eye, but what a bodybuilder calls bloating may be overly critical compared to what a doctor who sees the usual patients would say.

Your upcoming sonogram results should tell you more.

 

[parttimer]

I had an ultrasound and my liver was healthy with no signs of being fatty, nothing else going on in the abdomen either. I have labs in a month, I might pay ahead of time and do private md to see where they are, run the injectable then wait for the Dr run labs.

 

[genetic freak]

From what I have observed, if a drug is hepatoxic in oral form it will still be hepatoxic when injected. Is it the same level of toxicity? That I do not know.

 

[Kluso]

From what I have observed, if a drug is hepatoxic in oral form it will still be hepatoxic when injected. Is it the same level of toxicity? That I do not know.

Yeah, that’s why I never really understood injectable orals or used them before. But this run I did with injectable dbol was in a blend with test c and npp. I can say I did notice though was that I felt good on it like I used to. One of the main reasons I stopped using orals was because I just started feeling shity on them. Like a toxic feeling. And I used to love dbol. It’s been years since I ran dbol though, so can’t say I wouldn’t have felt good taking it orally also, but something to note.

 

[Thrawn]

By injecting you bypass what's called the first pass effect. When taken orally it can metabolized by 1 or more bodypart like stomach, intestines, liver, and lungs. When it gets metabolized less and less of the active ingredient makes it to the target. So injecting most compound goes straight to target. So injecting should be better for liver. During excretion it gets filtered then you poop, pee, sweat, exhale, the waste product. There is a 2nd pass effect but I don't believe it is applicable.

As far as oils, I did a quick search grape seed, cotton seed, and MCT all have positive effects on liver, some are more specialized than others.

Heavy metals can cause liver issues. If you home brew or UGL it would be possible. Hell even pharma has contamination issues. Last yr one of my meds were recalled for it.

If you liver has been elevated for years I would investigate further with a hepatologist. As an experiment I would discontinue Glutathione and milk thistle, and retest. Who knows, your level may be normal for you.

Here is the original patent for 2 androgens. Metal is used, not necessarily heavy, but processes change, cross contamination is possible.

 

[Thrawn]

I should probably clarify while injecting increases bioavailability to the target cells but liver will eventually touch it.

 

[Kluso]

Right @Thrawn! That’s been the age old question. Is second pass just as bad as first pass. Consensus has always been that it’s probably not as bad as first pass but probably not that much better. You would think by now someone would have done a legit experiment or study to find out the difference but I haven’t seen anything yet. Would be cool to find out exactly the difference.

 

[Kluso]

So amazingly enough I already have the results of my ultrasound! I have MyChart and just checked and results are in. Fatty liver it is! Now I’m beginning to wonder if my one good bloodwork from last year was a mistake of some sort. Unless I did reduce liver size and 10 months later it’s fat again? In case you guys haven’t seen my kidney thread, my GFR was good on that bloodtest last year also and bad again this year. Thinking maybe I overhydrated and diluted blood levels or maybe they just mixed up my results with someone else’s. Lol. Feel bad if someone got my bloodwork on accident. They probably been freaking out. Haha. But wait a second, I’m thinking about this more. The “findings” say my liver is enlarged. But the “impression” says enlarged fatty liver. Are they assuming it’s fatty because it’s enlarged? Is it possible oral steroids cause liver to enlarge and that’s why the enzymes elevate? Not necessarily fatty? Just a thought. My guess is probably not. Anyone know? Will need to do some research.

 

[Kluso]

Just found this with simple google search- infection, parasites, tumors, anemias, toxic states, storage diseases, heart failure, congenital heart disease, and metabolic disturbances may all cause an enlarged liver. So maybe it was the dbol? Also could be cancer. Lol. Not really funny.

And sorry @parttimer, for hijacking your thread.

 

[Kluso]

Last post, sorry. So liver is measuring 21cm which is way big! Normal is under 15cm. So it’s not just a little enlarged and probably not from 6 weeks of dbol. Probably gonna need more test. I’ll start another thread when I know more. Shit!