ICDP Intra-cycle Dose Progression.

[GiantSlayer]

This is likely an old idea but let's put a name to it. ICDP. The idea of slowly increasing your dose to reach a target dosage by the end of the cycle. Why? The hypothesis would be that the body adapts and forms a tolerance to AAS much like other medications. By slowly increasing the dose we can continue to force the body to adapt to an increase of blood levels, maybe saving a fair amount of money while increasing the efficacy of the cycle.

 

[PillarofBalance]

How does the body adapt to the dose? That's the premise and I don't know how you can back that claim up. Can you elaborate?

 

[GiantSlayer]

How does the body adapt to the dose? That's the premise and I don't know how you can back that claim up. Can you elaborate?

Nope, I can't. Simply a hypothesis a this point. I'm researching it and in one case AAS may actually have the opposite effect by upregulating the receptor.

 

[PillarofBalance]

I think the whole discussion about the receptors has been settled. It's been shown that they don't need to "clear" or anything of the sort. Regardless though I personally have experienced something on any blast I take beyond 14 weeks. Suddenly the wave seems to stop. Normally I would say that this is due to new and greater caloric needs but it has happened to me on a cut recently. I'm not sure what to make of it. I haven't tried switching compounds though to see if that changes anything.

 

[GiantSlayer]

It's that kind of observation that has me thinking about this.
Do you think you would progress after week 14 if you increased your dosage?

Look at it this way. In the first 2 week of your cycle (let's assume a short ester) would you see any better results on 750 mg of test as apposed to 500 mg? Would you see a difference if you took 1000mg those first two weeks? I feel that if you provide enough kcals your still only going to grow so fast. 500 should be enough and anything more might be a waste. Then, once you put on some weight and start requiring even more kcals, you will likely require a higher dose... say, 750mg for the next 4-6 weeks? Maybe finishing at 1000 for the final 6 weeks. You get the picture. How much drug is required to elicit the maximum effect and how does that number change during the course of the cycle?

 

[Enasni]

Very interesting idea here. Following along coz I don't have much input except to say > 14wks on the one compound leads to really bad sides for me personally, which I'm kinda led to believe is a bit odd for women.

 

[PillarofBalance]

It's that kind of observation that has me thinking about this.
Do you think you would progress after week 14 if you increased your dosage?

Look at it this way. In the first 2 week of your cycle (let's assume a short ester) would you see any better results on 750 mg of test as apposed to 500 mg? Would you see a difference if you took 1000mg those first two weeks? I feel that if you provide enough kcals your still only going to grow so fast. 500 should be enough and anything more might be a waste. Then, once you put on some weight and start requiring even more kcals, you will likely require a higher dose... say, 750mg for the next 4-6 weeks? Maybe finishing at 1000 for the final 6 weeks. You get the picture. How much drug is required to elicit the maximum effect and how does that number change during the course of the cycle?

Well we have two different goals. I take it for strength and recovery. Which makes this more interesting. My effects lessen in time. But I am not even using size to make that determination. I have no issues gaining weight because I have a voracious appetite. Even when I do bulk I still have periods of hunger.

I am not sure if I would progress at a higher dose. I could try on my next blast but for now I need to cruise for a bit. Normally I never take my test above 1.2g weekly. Anything beyond that and lethargy kicks in. About the only side I get really. But it pisses off the wife when I get lazy. I can maybe go 1.4g and see what happens for a couple weeks.

At some point though I would just not care really. I did a meet and relied heavily on drugs and trained half assed. The result was embarrassing. And getting back to training on my cruise was pathetic. All strength gone in a week as levels declined.

 

[Docd187123]

It's that kind of observation that has me thinking about this.
Do you think you would progress after week 14 if you increased your dosage?

Look at it this way. In the first 2 week of your cycle (let's assume a short ester) would you see any better results on 750 mg of test as apposed to 500 mg? Would you see a difference if you took 1000mg those first two weeks? I feel that if you provide enough kcals your still only going to grow so fast. 500 should be enough and anything more might be a waste. Then, once you put on some weight and start requiring even more kcals, you will likely require a higher dose... say, 750mg for the next 4-6 weeks? Maybe finishing at 1000 for the final 6 weeks. You get the picture. How much drug is required to elicit the maximum effect and how does that number change during the course of the cycle?

For the first two weeks you are still building up serum levels of the hormone you're pinning even with a short ester. The difference I would think, although minor, wouldn't be noticed in the two weeks but after bc the larger doses will raise serum levels faster.

 

[Docd187123]

I think the whole discussion about the receptors has been settled. It's been shown that they don't need to "clear" or anything of the sort. Regardless though I personally have experienced something on any blast I take beyond 14 weeks. Suddenly the wave seems to stop. Normally I would say that this is due to new and greater caloric needs but it has happened to me on a cut recently. I'm not sure what to make of it. I haven't tried switching compounds though to see if that changes anything.

Could be an issue of the receptor sensitivity or that even anabolic processes can happen for so much and for so long before the body needs a break.

 

[GiantSlayer]

For the first two weeks you are still building up serum levels of the hormone you're pinning even with a short ester. The difference I would think, although minor, wouldn't be noticed in the two weeks but after bc the larger doses will raise serum levels faster.

Is there a serum level at which would provide the maximum anabolic response implying that any serum level higher at that point is just a waste or worse, contributing to side effects?

Once a serum level is reached and the subject grows accordingly, would the subject need to elevate that level to continue to grow?

 

[Docd187123]

Is there a serum level at which would provide the maximum anabolic response implying that any serum level higher at that point is just a waste or worse, contributing to side effects?

sure there is, POB's post #7 is exaxtly this. If he goes above 1.2g of test weekly he just gets added sides with very little if any benefit to anabolism or strength/gains in his case. What this serum level is I have no idea, blood tests could help verify it but I'd also assume it to be very dependent on the individual in question and the goals of that person.

Edit* An example from my last cycle is that in terms of fat loss I did not notice any difference between tren dosed at 400mg per week and 600mg per week. So if fat loss was my main goal I had reached the point of diminishing returns. My goal is strength and power though and I noticed a difference in those variables with the dose change so in that context it wasn't a waste. I guess it also depends on your viewpoint to a certain extent.

Once a serum level is reached and the subject grows accordingly, would the subject need to elevate that level to continue to grow?

It depends I think. If someone has maxed out growth on a certain serum level then yes you would probably need to elevate for continual growth. If you've just ran one cycle at 1g of test for example but didn't necessarily max out your growth on that equivalent serum level then you'd probably be able to continue growth on the same dose. We know AAS increases the rate and amount of protein synthesis while also inhibiting proteolysis but that doesn't mean you've maxed out growth on a 750mg per week cycle of test just bc you did it for 16wks. There might be more growth potential at the same dose, there might not. It depends on your starting point and how efficiently you ran your cycle, how long it was, how your training was, and so many other factors.