Be careful of SOY!!!

[macgyver]

So I went in for my annual physical yesterday. Doc sends me a message, all good except your estrogen is WAY too high.

My estradiol was 65.1 range for men is 7.6-42. So 50% above the high range. I have been under drs care for hormones for years now and never had any estrogen issues.

I have not run anything higher than trt for a while.

After thinking about it..... I had a lightbulb go off. For about the past 7-8 months, I have been on this kick of eating this Kashi cereal which is a peanutbutter crunch stuff. I eat if 5-6 days a week. I am a creature of habit and it is part of my dessert from my first meal of the day. Anyway....1st ingredient...."Soy flakes".

I had always heard of soy estrogen connection, but part of me thought it might be overblown.

Stopping cereal as of now and docs wants me on anti-e for a bit and re-test in 8 weeks.

I dont feel any different. No sensitive nips or anything. But probably a good thing to figure out.

 

[whatsup]

The estrogen level you checked was it the standard or sensitive?

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[Lizard King]

You eating a box a day? That seems pretty high for a bowl of soy flakes.

 

[macgyver]

@whatsup Test just says estradiol.

I am wondering if it could also be artificially high because I timed my appointment wrong.

I took my shot the day before the test. 125mg. My test said >1500!>>> Think that could be why my estrogen is high?

Normally he tests me 4-5 days after shot.

Anyway....was just wondering if it could be soy....or now I am wondering if it coud be timing, and high test?

 

[whatsup]

Could be because you got tested a day later after your shot vs the 4 to 5 day period.
I suspect you got tested for the standard e2 and if its 65 that's a little high but not alarming. My e2 standard was 52 and should be below 39 pg/ml but when I tested my e2 with the sensitive test I was in the 40's.
The e2 sensitive is what men go with not the standard test.
Don't sweat it just repeat the test next time using both standard and sensitive for comparison.

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[macgyver]

@whatsup thanks man. Freaked me out a bit. Never had any e2 troubles except many years ago when I tried to see what Dbol was like . I did not last long on that! Within 2 weeks I had to quit.

I have run test as high as 600 without ever using an anti-e. I never got tested, but I never felt any typical estrogen sides.

 

[SAD]

If you quit eating the cereal AND start taking an anti-e, and get tested in 8 weeks, how will you know if it was the cereal. Food for thought. Pun intended.

As for the timing, how much conversion to e2 is there in the 24 hours after a shot of enanthate or cypionate? I would guess very little based on the ester and it needing time to be cleaved by esterase and peak the hormone levels, etc.

If it were me, I’d cut out the cereal and retest myself in 2-3 weeks. If it were still high, I’d consider aromasin.

 

[macgyver]

If you quit eating the cereal AND start taking an anti-e, and get tested in 8 weeks, how will you know if it was the cereal. Food for thought. Pun intended.

As for the timing, how much conversion to e2 is there in the 24 hours after a shot of enanthate or cypionate? I would guess very little based on the ester and it needing time to be cleaved by esterase and peak the hormone levels, etc.

If it were me, I’d cut out the cereal and retest myself in 2-3 weeks. If it were still high, I’d consider aromasin.

I email'd the doc and asked to just come in on fri and re-draw and test again to see if it could be related to timing? From there I will figure out, but I see what you mean. Hard time thinking it can be anything other. Been months since I had my test bumped up. Also I stopped about 8 weeks ago, I was running 200mg deca a week. But that has low conversion as well.

Certainly want to get to the bottom of this. The only 'good' that can come out of this is a script for anti-e. Be nice to have although I have not needed up to this point.

 

[macgyver]

@SAD Found this chart. Really goes against what I have heard about length of time to reach blood levels. Anyway, from a single 200MG TE dose. Test peaks 24hours at 1233 and estradiol peaks at day 2.

Here is the study
https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(16)46108-X/pdf

 

[SAD]

@SAD Found this chart. Really goes against what I have heard about length of time to reach blood levels. Anyway, from a single 200MG TE dose. Test peaks 24hours at 1233 and estradiol peaks at day 2.

Here is the study
https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(16)46108-X/pdf

Oh damn, definitely different than what I’ve believed up until now. Interesting for sure. And I see them both peaking at day one. Very interesting.

 

[macgyver]

My doc wants the number down. I have been on replacement therapy for a few years.

Looooong story short. I am BACK with my original doc who I started replacement with. A year after I started, my insurance changed and I had to find a new primary care doc. My new doc except once, never tested my estrogen. I never had any issues so that was that.

First of this year, my insurance changed again, and I was able to get back with my original doc who I had been with for years. He has said in his experience that most men need it regardless who are on replacement. He is my age and very health-oriented. I have always felt good about his advice.

I am going to follow his advice which is to knock the estrogen down with anti-e med and retest in 8 weeks. He said once it is down, that to stay on a very low regimen. This falls in line with what I have read from some 'famous' docs who run big clinics.

I am dropping the soy products also. In the end, I have to take my docs advice. Only negatives of the meds are some lipid issues they can cause, but my cholesterol is super low already. Usually in the 120 range.

Guess I will never know if it was the soy alone since he wants me on anyway! 1mg twice a week and then when it gets in range, he said 1/2 tab twice a week is what he usually has good luck with.

 

[Jin]

1mg of adex 2x/wk is what I take on a gram of test.