Calories and when the system hates carnivore

[gunslinger]

I find these conversations tiring as we retread the same issue. IF our bodies were a static system then CICO would be paramount. Few people honestly believe that. But they use CICO out to simplify things for newbies that get overwhelmed at the beginning of a diet.

there is value in simplicity when getttstarted. Then we learn that our bodies adapt. We all intrinsically know this as we see it all the time.

I don’t think we help people by telling them they can gain weight on 1000 calories and lose weight on 5000 calories. It confuses them and they throw their hands up in the air and think it’s hopeless.

Let a newbie get a few small wins under their belt to encourage them. In 6-8 weeks their body will start adapting and then you can begin educating them on how we’re adaptive systems and it will begin to make more sense

I don't completely disagree but I also think we do them a greater disservice by telling them a calorie is a calorie. This is why so many are still on the SAD (standard American diet) and doing stupid shit like eating massive amounts or carbs and sugar and having a diet coke and wondering why they get fatter by the day. Also, it amazing me that people will completely shit on something they have never personally tried just based on the pseudoscience they read in college. People are willing to take all manner of dangerous drugs in order to lose a few pounds but are scared to death to eat steak and eggs. WTF?!?

Once they have "learned" the wrong way its almost impossible to teach them the correct way. Case examples all over including this board.

 

[genetic freak]

I don't completely disagree but I also think we do them a greater disservice by telling them a calorie is a calorie. This is why so many are still on the SAD (standard American diet) and doing stupid shit like eating massive amounts or carbs and sugar and having a diet coke and wondering why they get fatter by the day. Also, it amazing me that people will completely shit on something they have never personally tried just based on the pseudoscience they read in college. People are willing to take all manner of dangerous drugs in order to lose a few pounds but are scared to death to eat steak and eggs. WTF?!?

Once they have "learned" the wrong way its almost impossible to teach them the correct way. Case examples all over including this board.

Not throwing shade, but the hate on Carnivore has more to do with the people who push it than the diet itself. It basically replaced Vegans. Vegans are rejoicing as they don't receive nearly as much hate anymore despite their diet being absolutely horrible for you. I don't really care what people do as far as diet. If it works for you, do it.

The only thing I can say about Carnivore is that it doesn't really have a place in bodybuilding other than fat loss. Those of us who have gotten stage lean and gotten hundreds of others stage lean know carbs actually do become essential to maintain gym performance at the end of prep. If you cannot maintain gym performance, you are losing muscle and will come in flat and stringy.

So, if you are on a bodybuilding board and pushing it, you will likely get some push back, as we do feel carbs are essential.

 

[WhiteApe]

I don't completely disagree but I also think we do them a greater disservice by telling them a calorie is a calorie. This is why so many are still on the SAD (standard American diet) and doing stupid shit like eating massive amounts or carbs and sugar and having a diet coke and wondering why they get fatter by the day. Also, it amazing me that people will completely shit on something they have never personally tried just based on the pseudoscience they read in college. People are willing to take all manner of dangerous drugs in order to lose a few pounds but are scared to death to eat steak and eggs. WTF?!?

Almost as wild as someone being scared of carbs or sugar.

 

[gunslinger]

Almost as wild as someone being scared of carbs or sugar.

Well, I'm certainly not scared of carbs and sugar. I love em' If I could I'd fucking live off of rice and fruit. They just don't love me back...lol

 

[gunslinger]

Not throwing shade, but the hate on Carnivore has more to do with the people who push it than the diet itself. It basically replaced Vegans. Vegans are rejoicing as they don't receive nearly as much hate anymore despite their diet being absolutely horrible for you. I don't really care what people do as far as diet. If it works for you, do it.

The only thing I can say about Carnivore is that it doesn't really have a place in bodybuilding other than fat loss. Those of us who have gotten stage lean and gotten hundreds of others stage lean know carbs actually do become essential to maintain gym performance at the end of prep. If you cannot maintain gym performance, you are losing muscle and will come in flat and stringy.

So, if you are on a bodybuilding board and pushing it, you will likely get some push back, as we do feel carbs are essential.

I don't think of myself as pushing anything. Its just frustrating to hear people talk about not being able to lose weight while watching them eat fucking rice and potatoes every day. Carnivore is NOT ideal for some sports such as bodybuilding or certain endurance sports like distance running. But, for overall health a Carnivore or Keto diet is very hard to beat especially of you have certain existing health issues.

Its not so much about the Carnivore diet not being suited to bodybuilding as it is people preaching a calorie is a calorie or saying clearly false things like "your body need carbs" or "you will die without fiber" all three are clearly lies but are repeated like they are gospel.

 

[genetic freak]

I don't think of myself as pushing anything. Its just frustrating to hear people talk about not being able to lose weight while watching them eat fucking rice and potatoes every day. Carnivore is NOT ideal for some sports such as bodybuilding or certain endurance sports like distance running. But, for overall health a Carnivore or Keto diet is very hard to beat especially of you have certain existing health issues.

Its not so much about the Carnivore diet not being suited to bodybuilding as it is people preaching a calorie is a calorie or saying clearly false things like "your body need carbs" or "you will die without fiber" all three are clearly lies but are repeated like they are gospel.

You are good, brother. Never thought you were pushing it on anyone. I just pointed it out as to why it gets so much hate.

 

[WhiteApe]

Well, I'm certainly not scared of carbs and sugar. I love em' If I could I'd fucking live off of rice and fruit. They just don't love me back...lol

Guess you missed out on the Mark Bell Sugar Diet craze.

I think a person can eat more carbs than they are led to believe as long as you keep the fats low.

 

[WhiteApe]

I don't think of myself as pushing anything. Its just frustrating to hear people talk about not being able to lose weight while watching them eat fucking rice and potatoes every day. Carnivore is NOT ideal for some sports such as bodybuilding or certain endurance sports like distance running. But, for overall health a Carnivore or Keto diet is very hard to beat especially of you have certain existing health issues.

Its not so much about the Carnivore diet not being suited to bodybuilding as it is people preaching a calorie is a calorie or saying clearly false things like "your body need carbs" or "you will die without fiber" all three are clearly lies but are repeated like they are gospel.

So, I would say that I am more anti-Carnivore than I am keto. I think a person can still be a fairly healthy keto diet if they put the work into building the diet correctly. But honestly, by the end of a fat loss phase I am pretty much low-fat carnivore which really sucks.

And not to be a douche because I know what you mean but... the body does need carbs which is they there is Gluconeogenesis. And the fiber thing, like I totally get where you're coming from the be correlation between low fiber and increased chance of colon cancer is pretty hard to ignore.

Thoughts?

 

[gunslinger]

So, I would say that I am more anti-Carnivore than I am keto. I think a person can still be a fairly healthy keto diet if they put the work into building the diet correctly. But honestly, by the end of a fat loss phase I am pretty much low-fat carnivore which really sucks.

And not to be a douche because I know what you mean but... the body does need carbs which is they there is Gluconeogenesis. And the fiber thing, like I totally get where you're coming from the be correlation between low fiber and increased chance of colon cancer is pretty hard to ignore.

Thoughts?

I would say that correlation does not equal causation. I would also have you watch some of Dr Ken Berry's vids on the matter.

 

[WhiteApe]

I would say that correlation does not equal causation. I would also have you watch some of Dr Ken Berry's vids on the matter.

I appreciate it. I’ve watched plenty of his stuff. Can’t shake the idea that low fiber and colon cancer are linked.

and I think keto has its value.

but people eating carnivore, especially long term. It’s difficult for me to imagine wanting to do that. Or that it is healthy long term.

honestly if I was forced between having to be carnivore or vegan, I would choose vegan.

 

[gunslinger]

I appreciate it. I’ve watched plenty of his stuff. Can’t shake the idea that low fiber and colon cancer are linked.

and I think keto has its value.

but people eating carnivore, especially long term. It’s difficult for me to imagine wanting to do that. Or that it is healthy long term.

honestly if I was forced between having to be carnivore or vegan, I would choose vegan.

Honestly I think carnivore is best for short term weight loss. I think keto is probably better long term unless there are underlying health issues.

If someone told me I had to be vegan, I'd honestly rather be dead.

 

[Bigtex]

My whole time competing in powerlifting (27 years) I put away tons of carbs. Ice cream, donuts etc. However, as I have gotten older I have started doing away with all of that. Even recently cut out completey my high carb weight gain shake. My last lab work my HEMOGLOBIN A1c was 5.9 H, Reference Range: <5.7 %. So I am 0.2 % into being pre-diabetic. So I have completely switched from high calory sweets to a lower GI carb using Greek Yogart, mixed fruit and high protein smoothies. I even put VirginOlive Oil in with all fruits/carbs I eat to further slow the absorption. No more white rice and only brown rice, protein is all from chicken and shrimp. No breads either. Hopefully it was the weight gain shake that cause the slightly high A1c but I am not going to push it any longer as Type II diabetes runs in my family. Out of 5200 calories I comsumer 35% carbs and most from lower GI sources. Hopefully this does the trick. I feel like for me, 35% carbs is plenty to support growth and healing. This actually more of a medeterranian diet. Thsi small rise in A1c could be the result of HGH use long term but I am not going to take any changes and try to lower it slightly. I don't even miss all the carbs.