How many other lies?

[Massive G]

I was appreciating those pictures until I scrolled down to broccoli.

Okay shit. I just ordered me a large beef and broccoli! Damn food porn.

 

[macgyver]

I had a friend in high school who was "peeled" as you say eating fudge and cool-aid. Good for you. Thats NOT how it works for most people. If it did MOST people in america would walk around looking like pre-competition bodybuilders.

Well, simple denial does not make it so. And I might consider your ideas if I saw some compelling reason to do so. (like perhaps incredible progress after switching to that lifestyle.

Also, I am NOT and never been a lean person by nature. I am an Italian and built like a keg. For a decade I had a 38" waist and no hopes of ever seeing 'abs'. Then in 2010, I learned the simple truth of IIFYM and cals in cals out. I have proven this to myself by FIRST spending 4 years preparing and weighing everything I consumed. EVERY meal prepared. Even made my own pizzas and icecream so I could know macros were correct.

I was NEVER the same weight 2 weeks in a row. Still being lifetime natural at the time, putting on mass at my state of training required 100% accuracy cals wise. I would eat 250-300 cal surpluses for 4-5 months (gaining 25-30 lbs scale weight, and then diet off at a 750-1000 cal deficit. OVER AND OVER. I have gained and lost 100's of lbs with clockwork like precision that you could easily plot on a graph. In fact I did that for some time.

Decade plus old spreadsheet plots of my weight and strength vs calorie intake below. I have 'walked the walk' with the majority of without reliance on AAS. IF you dont know, the game is MUCH harder and less forgiving without anabolics. Nothing against AAS and I do dabble, and it makes things MUCH more forgiving. Hence, I no longer count macros or even track cals. I just know what to eat after more than a decade plus eating for my goals.

I respect people and their individual goals. I love to see people excited and passionate about what it is they are doing. But you dont strike me as the most analytical guy. BUT I am still open to seeing your progress and perhaps expanding my thoughts on nutrition. I have been doing this a while, but always open to learning something new.

 

[testboner]

 

[gunslinger]

Well, simple denial does not make it so. And I might consider your ideas if I saw some compelling reason to do so. (like perhaps incredible progress after switching to that lifestyle.

Also, I am NOT and never been a lean person by nature. I am an Italian and built like a keg. For a decade I had a 38" waist and no hopes of ever seeing 'abs'. Then in 2010, I learned the simple truth of IIFYM and cals in cals out. I have proven this to myself by FIRST spending 4 years preparing and weighing everything I consumed. EVERY meal prepared. Even made my own pizzas and icecream so I could know macros were correct.

I was NEVER the same weight 2 weeks in a row. Still being lifetime natural at the time, putting on mass at my state of training required 100% accuracy cals wise. I would eat 250-300 cal surpluses for 4-5 months (gaining 25-30 lbs scale weight, and then diet off at a 750-1000 cal deficit. OVER AND OVER. I have gained and lost 100's of lbs with clockwork like precision that you could easily plot on a graph. In fact I did that for some time.

Decade plus old spreadsheet plots of my weight and strength vs calorie intake below. I have 'walked the walk' with the majority of without reliance on AAS. IF you dont know, the game is MUCH harder and less forgiving without anabolics. Nothing against AAS and I do dabble, and it makes things MUCH more forgiving. Hence, I no longer count macros or even track cals. I just know what to eat after more than a decade plus eating for my goals.

I respect people and their individual goals. I love to see people excited and passionate about what it is they are doing. But you dont strike me as the most analytical guy. BUT I am still open to seeing your progress and perhaps expanding my thoughts on nutrition. I have been doing this a while, but always open to learning something new.

That fact that you deny what I said even after I posted pics, daily caloric intake, meals, etc says you aren't interested in hearing another side. Only in proving what you believe. Also the fact that you want to turn each of these "debates" into a bodybuilding contest is a little weird considering I'm not a bodybuilder and don't work out that way. That would be a lot like me telling you I could beat your ass in a fight every time you post something I disagree with. I could easily, but it doesn't prove I'm right or that you are wrong. I posted I was losing at 5,000 calories per day. You said nah so I posted measurements and weight. You said I didn't know how to calculate my calories so I posted every single thing I ate with its caloric content. Now you want to compare abs to try and "prove" your point. LMAO

You can eat pizza, ice cream etc and look like you want. Great! But you don't seem to understand or care that most people cannot and you are probably the last type of person that should be giving anyone nutritional advice. Kinda like Ronnie giving advice on building big arms (Wells, I never do a whole lot for em' just a couple sets of curls every couple weeks) You also never addressed my statement about the standard american diet. Most of the obese people I know aren't taking in a lot of extra calories. But the majority of their calories is from sugar. Don't you find it the least bit strange that they can increase their total calories but drop the sugar and drop weight like a stone? I suppose everyone who has ever done carnivore or keto is incapable of counting calories?

I've also gained and lost hundreds of pounds over the last 30 years. With and without drugs. I've also seen thousands of people fail and succeed in losing weight and gaining muscle. "But you dont strike me as the most analytical guy" and you don't strike me as an intellectually honest guy. Just someone with a good metabolism and inflated ego who wants to post pics of himself at every opportunity.

 

[gunslinger]

Anyone who is being intellectually honest could not disagree with this video. I'm interested to see macgyver's response to this. I wounder if he will challenge Dr. Berry to a pose down!

 

[macgyver]

That fact that you deny what I said even after I posted pics, daily caloric intake, meals, etc says you aren't interested in hearing another side. ...... "debates" into a bodybuilding contest is a little weird considering I'm not a bodybuilder and don't work out that way.

You did post up pics before. To be 100% honest, your composition is not something I would consider good. (but we all start somewhere and I am not mocking you. Just a factual statement. Now I am interested to see what you look like a year later. If this diet works so well, I am guessing you must have made tremendous progress. I am genuinely curious.

I am NOT a bodybuilder either. My 25+ years of training were always focused on building strength. Being lean was never possible for me until I learned the simple truths of how easy it is to manipulate fat loss.



I watched the vid. It was painful. A typical internet guy who has to have a 'hook' to convince people he is worth watching. So many fitness and nutrition guys do this. Because the truth is not all that sexy and surly does not sell much. I cant make a lot of videos telling people ....you are fat because you simply eat too much.

But to dive deeper into totally blowing this guy out of the water. He is NOT disputing cals in cals out. He is simply saying it does not work. (which is wrong). He provides his reasons at 6:27 and 9:25. His reason for carnivore and keto working so well are simply hunger control and satiety. Cals in cals out depends on you only eating a certain amount of cals (whether you are hungry or not!). He is making an assumption that people will always overeat simply because they are hungry. That is not true for the disciplined. I deal with hunger just fine. But I am disciplined.

He also uses the most stupid example of cals in cals out feeding someone 500 cals a day saying....of course they will lose weight, but they will not feel good and be ravenously hungry. Guess what?.... Same happens on carnivore/keto if you only eat 500 cals per day. I have actually done this several times by the way. Called a PSMF. Protein sparing modified fast. Lyle McDonald was a large proponent of it. I felt terrible on that as well.

I am not going to run in circles with you. If you find that video compelling, it seems like you are his perfect target audience. People lacking almost any level of critical thinking. His 'fat is atoms not energy' is plain fukin stupid. Maybe that is what you tell a 5th grader because you dont want to explain the bodies energy cycle.


So I can safely assume you probably look similar to how you did a year ago. In that case, I will pass on diet advice from you. I am going to try to get in decent shape this summer. I never quite get where I want to because, well.... I am not a bodybuilder and I like to enjoy all aspects of my life. Food is part of great enjoyment for me. Wish you the best!

 

[Type-IIx]

You write like an English major and full of hubris. It is quite clear you took physics for poets.

I mean, I am no physics guy, that's true. Basic understanding, but no calc based physics... But a poet, that's pretty funny. Where do you get this shit? Because I string together a sentence better than you? Hubris would be exemplified by a refusal to try simply measuring your weight and plotting changes over time with food intakes that you can calculate (weigh, etc.) next time you were to cut.

 

[Type-IIx]

"Tell me, why is it I can eat over 4,000 calories per day and lose weight eating nothing but meat but I can eat 1,000 calories per day of sugar and get fat every single other thing being equal? I'll wait.

Because you're either too stupid to accurately count calories, or lying; in either case, nobody takes you seriously, Carnivore.

 

[genetic freak]

I wasn't kidding in my earlier post when I said I used to be 100% behind carbs were straight evil and I can eat as much protein and fat as I want and lose weight, as long as I didn't eat carbs. However, when I started carb cycling on this prep after things stalled out for a couple weeks, it changed my mind completely. On my high carb days, I just substituted protein for carbs and the BF started dropping. As a bonus, my strength and endurance improved. Those carbs were not clean either. I was eating boxes of Mike and Ikes, Air Heads and Sorbet Ice Cream to get my carbs up. Could I do that everyday? No, as I would become insulin resistant pretty quick, but once or twice a week and it is profound what it can do when you are insulin sensitive. The picture in my avatar was from last Thursday, flat as hell, as my high carb day was Friday. Bodpod last Monday had me at 5.9% BF.

Insulin resistance/sensitivity is the key. My insulin sensitivity used to suck, because I ate like crap for the first 35 years of my life. I was always under the idea that you could always work it off and I would try, running 70+ miles a week, crossfit/combat conditioning, lifting, HIIT, etc... When I stopped eating like crap, it didn't matter, the damage was done. My pancreas would not produce enough insulin. Not bad enough to make me type II, but my fasted glucose and post meal window was always in the pre-diabetic range, even taking GDAs. Went on keto for 18 months and I was good when on keto, but when I came off, it was actually worse. My pancreas adapted to needing to produce even less insulin. I went back to thrashing myself every day. Ended up with kidney damage due to flirting with rhabdomyolysis probably on a weekly basis (actually ended up in the hospital for it recently, which also caused heart damage). It really wasn't until I was able to push down to 10% BF and stay there for extended periods of time that my insulin sensitivity came back. I was only able to do that by cutting all calories.

 

[macgyver]

@genetic freak you make MANY good points. Insulin sensitivity is a HUGE part of the equation. Things like carb timing can work incredible, but you have to get to a point of being lean enough that you can utilize these things.

I use carb timing now every single day. I ALWAYS focus my carbs post workout. I NEVER break a fast with carbs. Always protein and fat. I have done many little 'experiments' with how to let my body use carbs and I definitely apply these to eat flexibly.

Now....if you carrying a lot of fat, much of this advice wont apply. I tried to manipulate carbs in the past, but it was not until I got lean that the impact could really be notice.

EVERY workout I do finishes with 80g simple sugars. Strawberries, bananna, and apple juice along with 2 scoops whey.

 

[genetic freak]

@genetic freak you make MANY good points. Insulin sensitivity is a HUGE part of the equation. Things like carb timing can work incredible, but you have to get to a point of being lean enough that you can utilize these things.

I use carb timing now every single day. I ALWAYS focus my carbs post workout. I NEVER break a fast with carbs. Always protein and fat. I have done many little 'experiments' with how to let my body use carbs and I definitely apply these to eat flexibly.

Now....if you carrying a lot of fat, much of this advice wont apply. I tried to manipulate carbs in the past, but it was not until I got lean that the impact could really be notice.

EVERY workout I do finishes with 80g simple sugars. Strawberries, bananna, and apple juice along with 2 scoops whey.

On the days I train (except my high day), I have carbs in my pre-workout meal 50-75 g, intra-workout 25-50 g and post-workout meal 50-75 g. I train in the morning, so by 11 am I am basically done eating carbs. My meals at 1 pm, 3 pm, 5 pm and 7 pm have less than 10 g of carbs per meal and those are only greens.

 

[Glycomann]

I mean, I am no physics guy, that's true. Basic understanding, but no calc based physics... But a poet, that's pretty funny. Where do you get this shit? Because I string together a sentence better than you? Hubris would be exemplified by a refusal to try simply measuring your weight and plotting changes over time with food intakes that you can calculate (weigh, etc.) next time you were to cut.

You write with conviction of exactitude with flowery language and hubris, which is difficult to tolerate.

Although this may seem a paradox, all exact science is dominated by the idea of approximation. When a man tells you that he knows the exact truth about anything, you are safe in infering that he is an inexact man. Every careful measurement in science is always given with the probable error ... every observer admits that he is likely wrong, and knows about how much wrong he is likely to be.

— Bertrand Russell