Latest posts

Forum Statistics

Threads
27,645
Posts
542,871
Members
28,583
Latest Member
jacobss
What's New?

Lean mass/ cutter recommendations

Ogre717

Ogre717

TID Official Lab Rat
Jul 22, 2011
1,658
693
Ok so Im making plans for a near future cycle. Im looking for other inputs or recomendations on how you would structure it. Im not looking for serious gains in size but I really need to LEAN out. I want to keep the inj limited to no more than 2x week because all this has to stay under the radar. The compounds I have used before and had great success with are several test blends, sust, eq, deca, and the orals I've played with are D-bol, winny, clen and various pct stuff. Id like to try to stick with compounds I have used before because I know how I react to them more or less. The environment I am in here is no place to be trying new things. Since it has been almost 6 years since I have been on, feel free to lean more twords the noob recommendations as I dont consider myself an expert by any means. 28 year old male, 5'9, 200lbs 14% body fat, dead center Mesomorph.
 
Ogre717

Ogre717

TID Official Lab Rat
Jul 22, 2011
1,658
693
Wow, 70 views but no replies. ok well this is what i have in mind:
10 to 14 weeks of some test blend 400-500 EW
12 to 14 weeks eq 200
first 4 weeks 30-50 dbol, bloating at first no biggie cus ill suck it in later
last 4 to 6 weeks winny and clen.
 
Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,442
649
that doesn't sound like too bad of a plan..

but why only 200mg of EQ? I'm all for reasonable doses but I feel if you are going to add something you should utilize a dosage that's going to work for you. 500mg of test C or E or Sust is reasonable for sure. I would recommend 400mg of EQ each week as a reasonable dose. You should see some great leaning effects toward the mid to end of the cycle and you should experience very very few side effects. Dbol is not the answer if your main goal is to cut. A better started would be Tbol, Var, or Winny. Again, this is just something to tide you over until the test kicks in. You won't likely see any dramatic changes until 4 or 5 weeks in. And that also all depends upon your diet and cardio.

You'll need to do some fasted cardio in the mornings before you eat breakfast (on an empty stomach, hence "fasted") and also maybe after your resistance training as well a few days a week. Do some research and find out what your BMR is so you can have a general idea of how many calories you need to maintain the weight you are at now. You need to set the calorie bar well below that to lose weight. Mathematically, if you are really 14% BF, then 200 x 0.86 = 172 lbs lean body mass. In most cases, if you multiply that number by 15 you can come close to the number of calories that you will need to maintain weight. In this case, it's 2,580 calories per day. If you reduce by multiplying by 10, the number drops to 1,720. I like to use this as a low end figure. Start a little above that number and work your way down. you may find that the more often you can eat throughout the day (even if it's just small meals) will really help with any hunger issues you may have. Following that protocol, with the addition of AAS, you should have no trouble maintaining muscle size and most likely will even gain some size in the process. You get out of it what you want to put into it. If you want more of a lean bulker, pick a calorie number between those 2 figures. But, remember, the idea of a true lean bulker is to maintain BF% while gaining a decent amount of mass.

People talk about a "lean bulker" as losing significant BF% while adding siginificant muscle mass. IMO, this is not a reasonable expectation... at least not for the average person. The only chance you have is running a ridiculously clean diet, making cardio your life, and taking a ridiculous amount of AAS. So, I personally would not advise that approach.

DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT TO DO BEFOREHAND. The biggest mistake people make is not having a set plan. Set up your cycle, your diet plan, AND your cardio plan. Start out slow on the cardio and work your way up. The best way that I have found to approach something like this is have a plan set, but re-evaluate your progress compared to the original plan about every 3 weeks and make adjustments as needed. Another mistake that happens, even if you follow that plan, is people will add additional supplements (AAS) mid cycle or change their plan to catch up after they may have been lazy with the diet in the first few weeks. The AAS portion should be the only thing set in stone (aside from having to discontinue due to unforeseen unbearable side effects). Stick with the plan and hopefully you'll be working so hard that you have to change the plan ONLY because the rate at which you are progressing is faster than you had imagined.

Set the bar high, but reachable. Research EVERYTHING. You have to make changes to your lifestyle to succeed. If you are already a disciplined person this should be easier for you. There is no room for lazy people when it comes to AAS. Laziness and AAS DO NOT MIX. IMO, being lazy about using AAS is one of the few ways other than super high doses that it may border on abuse. This is only advice I'm giving you, no assumptions here.

Setup a diet plan, create a log, re-evaluate progress every 3 weeks
Setup a cardio plan, create a log, re-evaluate progress every 3 weeks
Setup a workout plan, create a log, re-evaluate progress every 3 weeks
Setup an AAS plan, STICK TO IT!

Hard work is only rewarding if you know what you are doing. No one wants to work hard and garner zero or negative results. Build alll these things into your lifestyle and after awhile it will seem like cake! Check back in at the board often to ask questions... BUT, 2 things....

1. Do a lot of research now so you can ask 99% of the questions before anything starts
2. have an idea of what a person's response to your question will be
3. try to avoid asking questions you could google for.... instead, google it, provide a link or two, state that you've read what you're linking us to, and give us your thoughts. Feedback is only good if the person giving it can see that you've put in the effort. A standard general question will get a standard general answer... and maybe just one. A well thought out research based question will most likely ellicit multiple educated responses. Like I said, you get what you give.

Well, that's a shit ton of info and motivation for you to start with... good luck and keep us posted :)
 
PillarofBalance

PillarofBalance

Strength Pimp
Feb 27, 2011
17,066
4,640
Holy shit GS that was a ton of great info... In fact it was so much I couldn't read it all cause I have a headache. Not sure if you touched on it there but I would just say if you only want to pin a couple times a week, you'll likely use Test E or C... That will bring some water with it in most cases. So just a heads up that if you feel a little tighter in the pants, it might just be water.

I think a great way to use the gear for cutting is just to use it for "preservation of lean mass" and run a rigorous diet like a cyclical keto diet.
 
Ogre717

Ogre717

TID Official Lab Rat
Jul 22, 2011
1,658
693
Thanks for all the info. almost seems like you have answered this question before... lol. anyways because of my job i am probly living the most structured, scheduled, exact lifestyle imaginable. I do not have any days off. I wake up at the same time every day, go to the gym 3on1off consistantly. i do 20-30 min of various cardio every day as soon as i wake up. religiously drink protein shakes and take various other vitamins and supplements at the exact time every day. meals are at the exact time every day and although the chow hall does have some variety, i pretty much eat the exact meals every day give or take depending on what is being served. no variables. kinda like prison.

as for the low dose of eq I guess i can calk it up to the "thats just how Ive always done it". I think every cycle I have ever ran had eq200 through it. I love the stuff though so i dont see why alittle more wouldnt hurt. I knew that the dbol would not really be recommended but ive never messed with anything else so i just threw it out there.

I totally agree with you about the "lean bulker" thing. its an oxymoron. your either bulking or cutting. its kinda counterproductive to try to do both at the same time. like i said before im only looking for minimal size gains while leaning everything out.
 
Project

Project

Senior Member
Jun 22, 2011
114
13
excellent info per getsome! not my favorite compounds for cutting but i completely understand going with what you're familiar with
 
HisAngriness

HisAngriness

Fancypants VIP
Mar 23, 2011
2,193
604
Wow, 70 views but no replies. ok well this is what i have in mind:
10 to 14 weeks of some test blend 400-500 EW
12 to 14 weeks eq 200
first 4 weeks 30-50 dbol, bloating at first no biggie cus ill suck it in later
last 4 to 6 weeks winny and clen.
if staying lean is your goal then i'd cut the Dbol out and replace it with Winny or Var or Tbol like GS said.
i've never personally played in EQ, but i have heard through the grapevine that this is a compound that needs to be ran a minimum of 12-14 weeks to reap the benefits fully. perhaps somebody more experienced on this specific compound can chime in on the subject???
and i'm with GS, i'd bump that 200mg EW up to 400 if it were me. with 500mg Test E or C for my base.
got a PCT laid out?
 
Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,442
649
if staying lean is your goal then i'd cut the Dbol out and replace it with Winny or Var or Tbol like GS said.
i've never personally played in EQ, but i have heard through the grapevine that this is a compound that needs to be ran a minimum of 12-14 weeks to reap the benefits fully. perhaps somebody more experienced on this specific compound can chime in on the subject???
and i'm with GS, i'd bump that 200mg EW up to 400 if it were me. with 500mg Test E or C for my base.
got a PCT laid out?

I think Boldenone Cypionate will be the wave of the future. Regular EQ just doesn't even compare because it takes so damn long to reach desired blood concentration. Do some research on Boldenone Cypionate and then go get some at Walmart ;)

PCT is important... so important that you have to have everything handy before your cycle even starts. If you start your cycle and your PCT stuff never comes in the mail, you're fucked!

Weeks 1-12
500mg Test E
400mg EQ (or bold cyp)

Weeks 1-4
Tbol 40mg ED (or 30mg dbol with arimidex or exemestane if you can't find tbol)

Weeks 10-14 (if using Bold Cyp, this applies... if using regular EQ, then run this weeks 12-16 as you will need a month for the ester to clear)
Winny 50-75mg ED

If you end up using regular EQ, another way to do it is run the EQ for 12 weeks and the test for 13 or 14 weeks, just to make sure you have that boost until the end. All in all you are looking at 16 weeks of injections plus ester clear time plus a minimum of 4 weeks PCT. This is a solid 20 week protocol that should give you some very nice gains.
 
Ogre717

Ogre717

TID Official Lab Rat
Jul 22, 2011
1,658
693
Im still considering running an AI EOD or E3D throught the whole cycle, then probly just clomid/nolva for PCT.

I defininatly wont be starting anything untill i have everything i need. PCT is easy stuff to come by and one of TID sponsors seems like a decent route to go for that. Unfortunatly theres no local Walmart here so im stuck with online. I know one place that i have shopped before but it was a long time ago and dont know if i trust the place since i heard about SSB shutdown, and the shipping was stupid slow. still searching but its no huge rush, im going to be here a while.
 
Ogre717

Ogre717

TID Official Lab Rat
Jul 22, 2011
1,658
693
Well so much for all that planning. Fukcing store closed!
 
Who is viewing this thread?

There are currently 0 members watching this topic

Top