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Investing in Oil?

Rider

Rider

TID Board Of Directors
Aug 27, 2010
1,673
1,064
Hey all, is anyone planning to invest in oil stocks or futures now that the price has dropped signficantly since this past summer. It's great to see oil prices down, but I doubt that'll last long... looks like a good investment opportunity to get in before it shoots back up again. Thoughts and ideas?
 
Turbolag

Turbolag

TID's Official Donut Tester
Oct 14, 2012
7,400
1,255
From the research I've been doing and tips I've been given, energy stocks in general are good right now. Just make sure to research the companies before buying into their stock.

JR will have the 411 when he logs in for this.
 
JR Ewing

JR Ewing

MuscleHead
Nov 9, 2012
1,329
420
I agree that Whiting is very cheap right now and has its hands in lots of oil-rich assets. If you were going to buy both of the above stocks, I'd buy far more of Whiting than of the much more speculative Stratex. Among other things, Whiting has a good deal of institutional interest in the stock that is lacking in Stratex.

Others I really like are Continental Resources, Diamondback Drilling, Pioneer Natural Resources, EOG, Nabors Industries, Transocean, Halliburton, SLB, and CNOOC.

Not too much of your nestegg in any one company, industry, or sector.
 
Dex

Dex

VIP Member
Mar 30, 2011
1,511
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STTX is your cheap low risk, high reward stock. WLL is your no brainer stock in my opinion.
 
graniteman

graniteman

MuscleHead
Dec 31, 2011
6,133
1,556
I think you'll see lower prices and for a extended time. Obama is a lame duck and repubes are in control. We have a glut of oil because of a destroyed economy and confidence. Long term - yes , but much better areas to make better calls imho. . Keep a eye on Verifone PAY.. this is their year to break out
 
H

hardpr

VIP Member
Feb 21, 2012
789
170
nadl has a very good div and eps for the money. imo
 
fixxer

fixxer

MuscleHead
Dec 15, 2010
1,005
172
Honestly I wouldn't touch NADL or any of the offshore drilling stocks with money you aren't comfortable losing. If you want to get into oil stocks I'd say at least wait until they post their next earnings because this next earnings report is really going to show the hurt these companies have all taken because of the price of oil. Yeah, these stocks are low right now but that doesn't mean they can only go up and are no brainers.
 
JR Ewing

JR Ewing

MuscleHead
Nov 9, 2012
1,329
420
There's always risk in ANY investment, and I'm always reluctant to use the term "no brainer" myself. I am personally looking to get as rich as possible over the longterm while managing risk. Sometimes that means holding an investment for many years, sometimes it means holding for a few months, weeks, days, or even less than a day on the rare occasion. Sometimes it means carefully betting against a company I have a long position in as a hedge against its volatility, or even carefully totally betting against a company (or sector or industry) that is fundamentally in decline or broken - an advanced technique most average investors should probably avoid.

I have learned quite a bit over the last 21 years, and I've had a few companies I had $ in go bankrupt and cost me thousands in permanent losses. A well-diversified portfolio is essential. Buffett and Icahn may prefer to keep most or all of their $ in 10-20 companies, but I'm not as smart as they are. So I tend to usually own at least several dozen companies long, plus some commodities exposure, some puts / shorts as hedges, keep some cash set aside, etc. I'm currently long about 100 stocks and have a couple dozen put / short positions, plus about a half dozen commodities positions (gold, silver, oil, gas, etc). I like many companies, love a few, and am married to none.

It's true that oil and gas (exploration and offshore exploration in particular) are riskier than average and are also heavily tied to the prices of the underlying commodities, speculation, supply & demand, etc. That's why I say that even at this time when they appear to be poised for a comeback, you shouldn't have too much $ in energy (or anything else) overall, and you shouldn't have very much of that money in any one company.

It's been my experience that companies trading below double digits ($10 or more) are riskier on average than companies trading above $10. And companies trading for less than $1 are far riskier overall. I have occasionally owned small amounts of companies in single digits or pennies that produced a huge ROI, but the vast majority of companies trading that low are that low for good reasons, and are highly likely to stay below $1 or often even become worthless.

I would not personally label an oil & gas EP company with a 7 figure market cap, negative earnings and margins, a 15.5 debt / equity ratio, and that is trading for pennies on the pink sheets as "low risk". I'm not saying it's worthless, or that it won't necessarily go higher, perhaps even much higher eventually. But in my world it is far from "low risk".


As a purely hypothetical example for educational purposes:

Hypothetically speaking, an investor with a long time horizon of say 20-30 years or more, and a moderate to moderately aggressive risk tolerance, who is looking for longterm capital appreciation, who may have just rolled over a $100k 401k from a former employer into an IRA brokerage account or who may have just saved up that $100k and put it into a taxable account or whatever, and who won't likely need to pull any of that $ out until retirement might consider something along these lines...

Say perhaps roughly 15% or so in energy, spread out among perhaps a half dozen to a dozen companies. You might have $1-2k in a few onshore drillers, maybe another $1k each in a couple of offshore drillers, another grand or two in 1-2 servicers like Hal or Slb, maybe several thousand in a big integrated name like Exxon, and also perhaps a grand or 2 in a good transporter like KMI or BPL.

I'd say put no more than $100-200 or so of that $100k total and $15k of energy $ into something like STTX. If it goes to $80 from 8 cents, you made $10-20k. If it stays put, goes up very little, or goes bust, you're only tying up or losing a very small amount of money.

You'd probably want to keep at least 5% of your money in cash, perhaps another 5-10% in various commodities, and the other 70-75% largely in companies in other sectors and industries not directly related to energy - materials & industrials, tech, healthcare / biotech, consumer staples, etc, etc.

Regarding market timing aka "waiting", I wouldn't do it. If you have money to invest that you're not investing, I would at least start dollar cost averaging - putting a certain amount of cash into your investment accounts each week or month and investing that money. This has the built-in advantage of buying more shares of your investments when they are beaten down and cheaper, and fewer shares when they are higher priced.

I know people who are still "waiting for the bottom" for the last 6 years. They're either paralyzed by fear or think wrongly that they're smarter than everyone else. Anybody who tells you they're 100% sure of this or that should be ignored. The richest and smartest guys in the world readily admit that they don't know for certain what the market will do tomorrow or within the next quarter or year or whatever. They're largely or entirely "bottom-up" in most cases.

The Intelligent Investor: The Definitive Book on Value Investing. A Book of Practical Counsel (Revised Edition) (Collins Business Essentials): Benjamin Graham, Jason Zweig, Warren E. Buffett: 9780060555665: Amazon.com: Books


 
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C

C T J

Crossfit VIP
Jan 24, 2013
2,483
741
Only problem with out futures is you will need a large amount of capital. Any pullbacks on your longs will take -1000 per $1 on the barrel if you trade the bare minimum (1 lot) Oil is up $11 off the bottom. If it retests say $5 on the barrel to shake out weak hands, you'll be taking 5k in risk, which is a 100k account is 5%. Most investors like to stay in the 1-2% risk range.

Your best best is to stick with lower leverage (stocks) for the longer term hold, unless you are rollling with a 200k+ account, then futures at that level is perfectly fine.
 
Turbolag

Turbolag

TID's Official Donut Tester
Oct 14, 2012
7,400
1,255
Jr laying down some Knowledge. :D

If you are investing in a risky company, something to do for insurance is to put a trailing stop on it.

WWE stock is going up right now, and once or if it gets to the number I'm waiting on, I'm going to put a trailing stop of $1 or $2 on it.

Not trying to sound like an authority, its just a suggestion.
 
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