Opiate withdrawls

[dr jim]

Yes but creates another addiction to break later...trust me. Clonidine and prudent Benzo use is probably safer and cheaper in the long run.

==================================================

Mike makes an excellent point IMO, because indeed Ibuprenorphine has analgesic effects similar to morphine! Shit are we exchanging one narcotic for another, perhaps. However as i mentioned earlier because of Ibuprenoprphines partial agonist activity the euphoria most seek when using narcotics is markedly blunted.

Sub removes the DESIRE to use narcs for their "euphoric effect" and that's 90% of the battle IF the patient can overcome and/or tolerate the physical withdrawal. For some the latter is just "to much" and they return to using once again.

So studies have shown the addiction is a lesser of two evils and again the objective is to "withdraw" the Sub also, which is MUCH easier because of it's pharmacological properties.


Is Sub perfect, far from it, but rather another viable option physicians and patients have to conquer very complex problem.

Regs
Jim

 

[BrotherIron]

You know bro! I work with addicts see this all the time . Plus I was prescribed oxy for years and I needed med to kill the withdrawal effects on my body took 2 years but I've never relapsed never looked back - of course I was never an addict I don't drink ,smoke or have addictive issues . Meaning it was easier for me, but no less scary

I know all to well. A loved one used to shoot coke/heroin so I know... even talking about this subject brings back haunting memories. I've seen that person OD before my very eyes and somehow be brought back from the other side. It was quite literally the scariest time in my life. I moved 600 miles to try to get away from it but in the end family is the most important thing so I moved back and helped that person in the road to recovery.....

Thankfully, I never fought that demon which is surprising since I was on prescribed pain medication for years due to my bone disease.

They say addiction is made up of 2 components... environment + genetic. I have the genetic component but I wasn't in the environment. People, places, and things...

That's why I say I know Sub works. I've seen it save a life that everyone though was beyond being able to be saved. Statistics show that IV users have a 97% rate of using again and they pick up right where they left off which means one thing...death. I can actually say I know one of the 3% who has been sober for 8+ years and I thank god for everyday they remain that way.

 

[ketsugo]

um- you are obviously unaware that benzo withdrawal can kill you? behind alcohol there is nothing worse (and more dangerous) than benzos.... this is like suggesting prudent heroin use would cut down on withdrawal symptoms. it would, but you are simply trading into a more dangerous substance.

suboxone gets you high- it is a beautiful thing for non addicts to kick a habit bourne of necessary medical use.... not so good for drug addicts. it was said in previous posts that the agony of withdrawal is part of the package that helps you leave it alone- I tend to agree, but the only time I never aoded myself on a detox was when I was locked up.... and shitting yourself in a cell and washing your ass in the toilet is an interesting experience...

Bro I'm in 100% agreement with you here. Obviously know your shit! Suboxine for some serious addicts tougher than opiates, but I've had patients I share with psych die over klonipin etc . I'll add personal exoerience trump book studies everytime

 

[Mike_RN]

What Book Studies?

I'm talking about personal experience and 7yrs in ERs treating multiple addicts on a daily basis. It is evidenced based medicine or actual data gathered from actual treatment methods on thousands of addicts. Clonidine is way safer than Suboxone and if anyone cared to read my entire post I stated "Prudent use of Benzos" This means using them during the first 2-3days to keep a patient safe/controlled until the worst physical symptoms passed.

For the record I detoxed my ex with Compazine and Valiums back before I ever set for in a hospital. I'm not looking to have a "Big Dick" contest with anyone but I know of what I speak.

 

[Gstacker]

Like I said I don't know what drugs are best but I know there's a few to help I think if it's a problem the way to go is detox supervised... What happens in a emergency room and after that pationt leaves is two different things... There just trying to get you stable and keep you alive vs rehabilitate you.

 

[brutus79]

What Book Studies?

I'm talking about personal experience and 7yrs in ERs treating multiple addicts on a daily basis. It is evidenced based medicine or actual data gathered from actual treatment methods on thousands of addicts. Clonidine is way safer than Suboxone and if anyone cared to read my entire post I stated "Prudent use of Benzos" This means using them during the first 2-3days to keep a patient safe/controlled until the worst physical symptoms passed.

For the record I detoxed my ex with Compazine and Valiums back before I ever set for in a hospital. I'm not looking to have a "Big Dick" contest with anyone but I know of what I speak.

Prudent = someone else dispensing in this case. Give me 20 2mg ativan to use in a Prudent way during detox and I wake up 2 states away on top of a dead hooker.... with a pocket full of my d.o.c. and a mean headache. I think we can also concede calling what happens in an er "treatment" for an addict is pretty generous- the only permanent eradication of addiction that has transpired in an emergency room is when an addict perishes there.

I used to bang an er nurse and she said when people got a permanent erection from viagra they had to slice their dick open- true?

 

[dr jim]

What Book Studies?

I'm talking about personal experience and 7yrs in ERs treating multiple addicts on a daily basis. It is evidenced based medicine or actual data gathered from actual treatment methods on thousands of addicts. Clonidine is way safer than Suboxone and if anyone cared to read my entire post I stated "Prudent use of Benzos" This means using them during the first 2-3days to keep a patient safe/controlled until the worst physical symptoms passed.

For the record I detoxed my ex with Compazine and Valiums back before I ever set for in a hospital. I'm not looking to have a "Big Dick" contest with anyone but I know of what I speak.

========================================================

Damn fella must you be so "brutal", lol!

Mike is only making a legitimate point an that is there is more than one way to skin this addiction cat and while Sub does indeed exchange one of several more toxic narcotics for another that is more benign, it's no panacea by any means.

The latter becomes apparent when the attrition rate of roughly 80-90% (at two years) is realized. However the same holds true for the various concoctions in use today, including Benzo's, Phenothiazines, H-1 blockers, etc.

Unfortunately, I many ways it's similar to the "one step forward and two steps back" that is seen in every single "dietary therapy" exclusive of "that hard one", a LIFESTYLE CHANGE!

Respects
jim

 

[ketsugo]

What Book Studies?

I'm talking about personal experience and 7yrs in ERs treating multiple addicts on a daily basis. It is evidenced based medicine or actual data gathered from actual treatment methods on thousands of addicts. Clonidine is way safer than Suboxone and if anyone cared to read my entire post I stated "Prudent use of Benzos" This means using them during the first 2-3days to keep a patient safe/controlled until the worst physical symptoms passed.

For the record I detoxed my ex with Compazine and Valiums back before I ever set for in a hospital. I'm not looking to have a "Big Dick" contest with anyone but I know of what I speak.

Bro stop taking it personal when I post I speak to all members over past 16 years not just you. I hear you as I too studied in school , work as my job but I also was prescribed oxy fir 4 years at high doses by my doc after several surgeries . My tolerance was so high I was prescribed 160 mg day and getting withdrawals no pain relief . You can imagine the harassment at the pharmacy always included delays needing to ok with my doc despite my going to same pharmacy . I'm not addict , don't drink or smoke . My addiction is living and training lol. Went on suboxine took 2 years to ween off. Now Motrin is my only pain reliever and still don't drink or smoke ha ! I do love coffee.

And please to all shut up with the " big dick " contest" comments sounds stupid. No one is doing that.

 

[Mike_RN]

Prudent = someone else dispensing in this case. Give me 20 2mg ativan to use in a Prudent way during detox and I wake up 2 states away on top of a dead hooker.... with a pocket full of my d.o.c. and a mean headache. I think we can also concede calling what happens in an er "treatment" for an addict is pretty generous- the only permanent eradication of addiction that has transpired in an emergency room is when an addict perishes there.

I used to bang an er nurse and she said when people got a permanent erection from viagra they had to slice their dick open- true?

We try Pseudoephedrine first Then needle drain, then filet if all else fails.