htcz protocol

[jhotsauce7]

Always a great to have you around dr Jim. I amassing copious amouns of knowlege from our interactions and your posts on this board... Let me however state that I was always operating under the premise that too much K can interrupt the heart's electrical signals just as a lacking of K would... Is this an accurate assumption?

 

[jhotsauce7]

If supplementation is necessary or at least favored, I have heard many have used a liquid K suspension as opposed to capsules. I can only surmise this is due to the faster uptake and absorption through the digestive tract

 

[CBS]

Always a great to have you around dr Jim. I amassing copious amouns of knowlege from our interactions and your posts on this board... Let me however state that I was always operating under the premise that too much K can interrupt the heart's electrical signals just as a lacking of K would... Is this an accurate assumption?

Yes, potassium chloride is used during lethal injection to stop the heart. Hyperkalemia can certainly result in bradycardia and serious arrhythmias but excessive intake won't result in hyperkalemia in someone with normal renal function *unless* they are using certain medications or ingesting massive quantities, either orally or by I.V. infusion.

 

[dr jim]

Always a great to have you around dr Jim. I amassing copious amouns of knowlege from our interactions and your posts on this board... Let me however state that I was always operating under the premise that too much K can interrupt the heart's electrical signals just as a lacking of K would... Is this an accurate assumption?

Well of course to MUCH of a good thing can be bad!

But supplementing 10-20 meq/day of KCL for those BB using diuretics poses NO HEALTH RISKs providing........they ARE OTHERWISE HEALTHY (no DM, Adrenal tumors etc) have normal renal function, are NOT using a "potassium sparing" anti-hypertensive like ACE inhibitors and are NOT a using a "potassium sparing" diuretic such as spironolactone in conjunction with their loop or thiazide diuretic.

However the BEST means of knowing whether YOU or ANYONE ELSE could benefit from K supplementation is to check the serum potassium level.

What do I suggest for those using a THIAZIDE diuretic such as HCTZ at a dose of 25 mg/day or greater 10meq/ day of KCL daily
Those using a LOOP diuretic such as LASIX at a dose of 20mg/day or greater "" " " " " "

If the diuretic dose is greater than or equal to 50mg and 40mg respectively 25meq/ day of KCL is often recommended.

(I DO NOT suggest doses of this magnitude EXCEPT FOR COMPETITION and in that circumstance on site analysis is highly recommended AND readily available. (I can have E-lyte results in TWO MINUTES in my office)

Respects
jim

 

[dr jim]

Always a great to have you around dr Jim. I amassing copious amouns of knowlege from our interactions and your posts on this board... Let me however state that I was always operating under the premise that too much K can interrupt the heart's electrical signals just as a lacking of K would... Is this an accurate assumption?

Since you asked a direct question HS-7 the direct answer is, GENERALLY speaking a high potassium levels lowers the "action potential" threshold and hastens cardiac conduction. This may lead to the development of TACHY-ARRYTHMIAS. PVC'S, PAC'S and rarely a condition called to TORSADES DE POINTES or "slow V-TACH". What level is TYPICALLY required in those with NORMAL HEARTS? A SERUM K of greater than >7meq/dl. (Greater than 8meq is probably a more accurate estimate)

Conversely the lowering of serum potassium elevates the action potential threshold AND slows cardiac conduction. The result can be BRADY-DYSRHYTHMIAS, HEART BLOCKS, AND EVENTUALLY A VERY WIDE COMPLEX "SINE WAVE" PATTERN followed by ASYSTOLE. What level is typically required for these abnormalities to occur in NORMAL HEARTS? <2.5.meq/dl

What does all this mean? Nothing except otherwise NORMAL cardiac muscle and it's conduction system tolerate HYPER-KALEMIA more readily than HYPO-KALEMIA.

jim

 

[Zomb131]

People confuse Dyaziade and HCTZ up A LOT. Yes, earlier in the thread it was mentioned what the difference was, but i've never met a coach that would advise taking Dyaziade because of the blood pressure medication that's in it. It could effect your ability to pump up.

The Shelby protocol is only half posted. You're missing the diet, sodium depletion, and loading that accompanies the diuretics.

Shelby had me on a crazy diuretic protocol, HCTZ + aldactone. I was dry as shit and after I sodium loaded the morning of the show on whole eggs + sea salt, it was crazy.

 

[jhotsauce7]

That's true ^^ I did follow this same protocol, however it wasn't posted up where Shelby had shared the Htcz dosing ... But then again why would he give all that info away for free if he can charge a fee


again as always dr jim you continue to educate those of us that have an unfulfillable hunger for knowledge on these kinds of subject matters. It is much appreciated!

 

[dr jim]

Ironically the "protocol" your referring to uses TWO different forms of DIURETICS. The potassium sparing form ALDACTONE and a non-K sparing tubular thiazide diuretic. While the former has it's benefits with regard to serum electrolytes, K in particular, it is a relatively WEAK diuretic and as a result almost always combined with either a "Thiazide" or "Loop" diuretic .

Dyazide is another "combination" diuretic with Triamterene as the potassium sparing agent and HCTZ as the tubular diuretic. Because the diuresis is more brisk with this combination, the BP decline is also more remarkable and FOR THAT REASON the FDA approved the combo as an "anti-hypertensive agent".

OF NOTE IS THAT ALDACTONE has a WELL documented ANTI-ANDROGENIC effect and for that reason alone is best avoided by BB alone or in combination.

So you can use the combination product and forgo the K supplementation, or use HCTZ yet add 10meq of KCL at half the cost!

regs mate

jim