Before you start... Read this... there ARE dangers to Steroids.

[gunslinger]

I'm not saying steroids CAN'T kill you. I'm just saying I haven't seen any real proof that they do. I mean considering probably at least 80-90% of the top athletes in popular pro sports are juicing, and pretty much all bodybuilders at the national level. You would think with hundreds of thousands if not millions of people world wide taking steroids regularly people would be dropping like flies. But thats not what we are seeing is it? I have been keeping up with bodybuilding for around 23 years and have only seen a small handful of deaths and those were normally due to stupidity at contest time. The others were heart attacks. But who is to say those heart attacks were absolutely steroid related?

 

[IronCore]

You are corect GS... who can say the heart attack was caused by AAS?... WHO can say it WASNT??? it may have been the life style... one thing we DO KNOW... prolonged AAS use will cause thickening in the heart and problems with the valves... How many times have you ever heard that is GOOD for you???? It is a risk we ALL take... myself included. Yet WE STILL do it...

 

[gunslinger]

You are corect GS... who can say the heart attack was caused by AAS?... WHO can say it WASNT??? it may have been the life style... one thing we DO KNOW... prolonged AAS use will cause thickening in the heart and problems with the valves... How many times have you ever heard that is GOOD for you???? It is a risk we ALL take... myself included. Yet WE STILL do it...

Well, lets for the sake of argument say those hand full of deaths were for sure cause by AAS use. Whats that, Like 3-4 people in over 20 years? Out of how many? Whats the %? .005? Smaller maybe? In other words you could basically say if any of them smoked it was the cigs that got em, maybe they had a few drinks in their 40-50 years, yep the liquor got em', maybe it was stress? Do you think living the life of a top athlete could be a bit stressful at times? Could it have been the few lines of coke back in the 80's? Nah, must have been the roids, its the only "reasonable" explanation right?


Do you see how dumb that sounds when put into prospective?

 

[RAIDEN]

But who is to say those heart attacks were absolutely steroid related?

who is to say they WERE NOT related?

You also mentioned in 23 years you have only seen a handful, well now or real soon is about the time that can start changing. I will use WWE athletes for example, so many of them have died years later from heart attacks and heart issues, and as we know those athletes are 9 out of 10 juiced to the gills. I am not saying that is gospel to support the discussion at hand, but it sure cant be over looked or ignored.

 

[gunslinger]

who is to say they WERE NOT related?

You also mentioned in 23 years you have only seen a handful, well now or real soon is about the time that can start changing. I will use WWE athletes for example, so many of them have died years later from heart attacks and heart issues, and as we know those athletes are 9 out of 10 juiced to the gills. I am not saying that is gospel to support the discussion at hand, but it sure cant be over looked or ignored.

All you are doing is proving my point. Since you mentioned the WWE guys lets go with that. There have been a few die of heart attacks in the last few years. True. Did you know that on top of being on steroids they were also ALL taking massive amounts of pain meds? Did you know that ALL had done or were doing coke? Did you know the most of them also drank like fish? But like the media you are fast to throw out the years of prescription pain killer abuse and the rec drugs and go with the "roids finally got em" bullshit. Why?

 

[IronCore]

I understand your argument GS... and you are only pointing out the "pros"... let's look at this board... SHINE (RIP) passed away with a heart issue... was it directly caused by gear... most likely not... I would bet that AAS didnt HELP... Look at RedNeck... heart attack... My good friend MAYO has also had heart issues... all of which where not HELPED by using AAS... lets look at this bigger picture... not just the pros... EVERYONE... and take this thread for what it is worth... treat AAS with respect... It will certainly not kill you the first cycle... it may not even kill you your last cycle... but it CAN cause complications later on in life and most certainly WILL cause problems if you abuse it. do you not agree?

 

[gunslinger]

I understand your argument GS... and you are only pointing out the "pros"... let's look at this board... SHINE (RIP) passed away with a heart issue... was it directly caused by gear... most likely not... I would bet that AAS didnt HELP... Look at RedNeck... heart attack... My good friend MAYO has also had heart issues... all of which where not HELPED by using AAS... lets look at this bigger picture... not just the pros... EVERYONE... and take this thread for what it is worth... treat AAS with respect... It will certainly not kill you the first cycle... it may not even kill you your last cycle... but it CAN cause complications later on in life and most certainly WILL cause problems if you abuse it. do you not agree?

If you want to look just at this board lets do that. Again, what were these guys lifestyles like? Did they eat like bodybuilders or pig out like Ive seen most people on here do myself included? If you are 5'8" and 220 you can expect to have heart and other health issues over time. (large for hight) I agree that these issues were not helped by the use/abuse of AAS. Lets face it, I'm 5'9" tall, if I wanted to be at a "heathy" body weight and cause less strain on my heart I'd weigh about 150 lbs. This is my heart healthy weight. But thats not what we do is it? we all spend years eating 2-3 times or more the number of calories that we should and packing on pound after pound of body mass that the heart has to struggle to pump blood through. Steroid or not that lifestyle aint healthy and would in itself result in health issues over time.


I think we can both agree that steroids should be treated with respect. As with every other medication. They are no more dangerous than meds most people take every day and in some cases far less so. As with any other meds, if abused, you will have issues at some point.

 

[GiantSlayer]

Not everyone who goes skydiving is going to dye. However, one must accept that there is a risk. One might argue that if done correctly and with the correct training, that you can not dye from skydiving. But people do. Where do we place the blame? Equipment failure? User error? Maybe the guy had a heart attack? Was it the heart attack that killed him or the fall?

Most everything we do has a risk. To deny that steroids come with risks is not wise.

 

[gunslinger]

Not everyone who goes skydiving is going to dye. However, one must accept that there is a risk. One might argue that if done correctly and with the correct training, that you can not dye from skydiving. But people do. Where do we place the blame? Equipment failure? User error? Maybe the guy had a heart attack? Was it the heart attack that killed him or the fall?

Most everything we do has a risk. To deny that steroids come with risks is not wise.

I don't think anyone is going to deny steroids come with risks. I just they the risks are grossly overstated.

 

[IronCore]

maybe so... but My whole point was that these noobs thinking AAS has no risks need to know there are risks... too many youngens out there wearing primrose glasses and ****ing themselves up because they dont see the hidden dangers.

 

[gunslinger]

maybe so... but My whole point was that these noobs thinking AAS has no risks need to know there are risks... too many youngens out there wearing primrose glasses and ****ing themselves up because they dont see the hidden dangers.

Now that we can agree on. Quick way to help that problem? Ban the jackasses recommending insane cycles to the new guys. Not a week goes by I don't see some ass wipe "vet" or "mod" recommending a gram of test a week and 2-3 other compounds to some 20 year old kid new to the boards.

 

[HDH]

I look at it like this.

We all know that aas come with sides. If you are prone to sides, the risk of getting them is greater.

There should be no argument there.

Now take more serious medical conditions and over time, it's my opinion that these will also increase the risks of these problems.

I have a history of heart trouble in my family. You can bet I've accepted the risks associated with this.

Take a look at your medical histories ladies and gents. Perhaps the risks are increasing by our usage but long enough term to not be directly related to it.

H