Zomb131
MuscleHead
- Jan 31, 2011
- 1,125
- 264
No. The bitcoin network provides the algorithm aka "block." The algorithm itself helps secure the bitcoin network. Once a computer solves the block, a bitcoin is mined. As more and more bitcoins are mined, the harder and harder the math problems become; thus, taking longer to solve/mine. There is an END to bitcoins, there are only an X amount of them. The last one is supposed to take an eternity to solve.
JR Ewing
MuscleHead
- Nov 9, 2012
- 1,329
- 420
I'm a free market guy, and I'm all about a small govt with minimal regulations. But a safe currency is a currency that is relatively stable in value and that an honest govt needs to be able to watch and be able to hold crooks accountable.
Regarding electronic transactions, I was always one to whip out my card and pay for things electronically in years past, and rarely kept any more than $20 or so in cash on me. I always figured it was safer to have a card with a pin # that left an electronic trail in case it was lost or stolen, or that I'd have a trail in the event I may have done any "drunk spending" that I may have forgotten about.
But with all this hacking and other electronic theft that goes on, I've gotten to where I actually feel safer carrying at least a couple of hundred bucks in cash with me everywhere and leaving the cards at home. I pay the waiters, cashiers, and clerks at restaurants and stores with cash now. If I should happen to lose my wallet (something I've never done), I'd rather somebody find a few bucks than debit or credit cards or account numbers.
And in the unlikely event I get mugged or stuck up, they can only get so much from me if I don't have a card on me. And with all the cameras around everywhere these days, they're likely to get caught sooner or later. Plus I carry a weapon.
I almost always leave my card at home these days unless I'm going to need it to reserve or rent something, or if I think I may spend more than a few hundred bucks.
I even have 2 checking accounts - one I put my income in that I don't give out to any businesses, and a second one I transfer the minimal amount of $ I need to pay bills electronically, write any checks I may need to write, and have pocket money available. If someone hacks that second account, there's usually very little in there for any length of time for someone to steal.
Regarding electronic transactions, I was always one to whip out my card and pay for things electronically in years past, and rarely kept any more than $20 or so in cash on me. I always figured it was safer to have a card with a pin # that left an electronic trail in case it was lost or stolen, or that I'd have a trail in the event I may have done any "drunk spending" that I may have forgotten about.
But with all this hacking and other electronic theft that goes on, I've gotten to where I actually feel safer carrying at least a couple of hundred bucks in cash with me everywhere and leaving the cards at home. I pay the waiters, cashiers, and clerks at restaurants and stores with cash now. If I should happen to lose my wallet (something I've never done), I'd rather somebody find a few bucks than debit or credit cards or account numbers.
And in the unlikely event I get mugged or stuck up, they can only get so much from me if I don't have a card on me. And with all the cameras around everywhere these days, they're likely to get caught sooner or later. Plus I carry a weapon.
I almost always leave my card at home these days unless I'm going to need it to reserve or rent something, or if I think I may spend more than a few hundred bucks.
I even have 2 checking accounts - one I put my income in that I don't give out to any businesses, and a second one I transfer the minimal amount of $ I need to pay bills electronically, write any checks I may need to write, and have pocket money available. If someone hacks that second account, there's usually very little in there for any length of time for someone to steal.
graniteman
MuscleHead
- Dec 31, 2011
- 6,133
- 1,556
As much disdain as we hold for govt's in general, oe is needed to control and regulate currency. How can you put faith and run a business on a wildly fluctuating currency like bitcoin? Short answe is you can't, business' and markets need stability. Like you stated, great example look at Mt Gox, just decided to fold up with billions. At least with actual currencies a depositor has some relief.
macgyver
TID Board Of Directors
- Nov 24, 2011
- 1,997
- 1,672
It remains to be seen how Gox will filter through. I feel it is a small bump, but a year from now, it will be long forgotten. With forensic work, the money can be traced and recovered. Heck, the exchange is still around 20% solvent by most accounts and that is more then most banks as a reference. Just a VERY VERY badly run business for many years with poor accounting practices that took multiple years to catch an issue. The issue is NOT digital currency....it is a poorly run exchange.
That said, as for value of it....Again, it is what it can do. 100% secure instant transactions to anyone anywhere in the world without needing a bank to do it. Un hack-able and free from inflation or manipulation. In fact they will in theory be the opposite of inflation since there is a set amount that will ever exist.
While some may say gold, has had intrinsic value for centuries, it is because of it's scarcity that it has had this. Aluminum used to be worth more then gold. Now it is so cheap we package our beverages in it. The 'dollar' and other printed currencies have a tough road ahead in the futures global economy. A system such as this (maybe not bitcoin) will likely be the eventual currency.
The volatility will settle down in time. As we speak, people and large companies are investing hundreds of millions in a digital future world. I subscribe to a news group on crytptos. New exchange in Hong Kong, China....ATM's in us cities set to use Bitcoin.... It is only a small ripple now, but soon enough it will be everywhere.
I am betting on Litecoin for a number of reasons. Hoping Bitcoin is "myspace" and Litecoin is "Facebook". The second guy fixes things and does it better. This is already the case with the network and transaction speed. Also in generation. (a more diverse mining group vs highly centralized mining).
I am just a very small player in the mining world. Really a hobbiest. The pools that I mine (think co op) have some heavy hitters on them. Guys with easily 300,000-400,000 k in equipment and they are 50 deep (on just one pool). These guys are big players with big investments and operating costs to mine these coins.
My setup is just about 10k and costs me about 340/ month in electricity. At current rates, it produces about 1600/month in coins. (which obviously will be worth more if the value rises). I figured on initial investment that the payback was 6-7 months....but you never really know. If some speculations hit (like predicting that Litecoin will be $100-150 by end of 14), my 10k could be 100 or 150. Lots of time and events between now and then.
But like I said, this is a lot of fun. I enjoy managing the mining. It is some fun problem solving. I even day trade with a little of the product (on a different exchange
). Made a few doing that too. I approach it as a fun hobby that could pay off big. If not, I have wasted money on worse.
That said, as for value of it....Again, it is what it can do. 100% secure instant transactions to anyone anywhere in the world without needing a bank to do it. Un hack-able and free from inflation or manipulation. In fact they will in theory be the opposite of inflation since there is a set amount that will ever exist.
While some may say gold, has had intrinsic value for centuries, it is because of it's scarcity that it has had this. Aluminum used to be worth more then gold. Now it is so cheap we package our beverages in it. The 'dollar' and other printed currencies have a tough road ahead in the futures global economy. A system such as this (maybe not bitcoin) will likely be the eventual currency.
The volatility will settle down in time. As we speak, people and large companies are investing hundreds of millions in a digital future world. I subscribe to a news group on crytptos. New exchange in Hong Kong, China....ATM's in us cities set to use Bitcoin.... It is only a small ripple now, but soon enough it will be everywhere.
I am betting on Litecoin for a number of reasons. Hoping Bitcoin is "myspace" and Litecoin is "Facebook". The second guy fixes things and does it better. This is already the case with the network and transaction speed. Also in generation. (a more diverse mining group vs highly centralized mining).
I am just a very small player in the mining world. Really a hobbiest. The pools that I mine (think co op) have some heavy hitters on them. Guys with easily 300,000-400,000 k in equipment and they are 50 deep (on just one pool). These guys are big players with big investments and operating costs to mine these coins.
My setup is just about 10k and costs me about 340/ month in electricity. At current rates, it produces about 1600/month in coins. (which obviously will be worth more if the value rises). I figured on initial investment that the payback was 6-7 months....but you never really know. If some speculations hit (like predicting that Litecoin will be $100-150 by end of 14), my 10k could be 100 or 150. Lots of time and events between now and then.
But like I said, this is a lot of fun. I enjoy managing the mining. It is some fun problem solving. I even day trade with a little of the product (on a different exchange
). Made a few doing that too. I approach it as a fun hobby that could pay off big. If not, I have wasted money on worse.
macgyver
TID Board Of Directors
- Nov 24, 2011
- 1,997
- 1,672
There are several exchanges worldwide. (more coming for sure). You can exchange between any currency you want and even wire the money to a bank account if you desire. (you pay fees like you would any other exchange).
There are more and more retailers everyday that accept it directly (through coin services which handle the exchange rates and pay the retailer for a small fee similar to credit card processors. ). Coinbase is the largest US based service. That is who Overstock partnered with. Overstock.com is probably the most high profile as of recent. I am sure more are coming. Lots of places online to spend them. More and more brick and mortar places every day. Some car dealerships have taken them. (a guy bought a lambo with some).
Here is a list of several thousand....more and more every day
https://spendbitcoins.com/places/
P
prime
TID Board Of Directors
- Dec 31, 2011
- 1,178
- 254
oops. I forgot to quote lizard. He wanted an explanation about mining.
Mining is just running a transaction server on the bitcoin network. For letting the system use your machine, the system pays back a little bitcoin to a particular miner(the one that solves the block). Every 10 minutes the bitcoin network releases 25 bitcoin and the computer that solves the block gets rewarded those bitcoin. Since it is so difficult to actually solve a block with a single computer, most people join pools and share the block reward when the pool hits the reward.
Right now, callilng it a currency is a little premature. It's value lies right now it it's frictionless state. The ability to send someone an amount of money without a middleman. That means I can send someone money anywhere in the world over the internet without a credit card or money transfer agent. It really is huge if you think about it. It opens up a ton of potentional for small businesses and poor countries. The value people perceive is that there is a limited amount of bitcoin that will ever be made. They cannot be counterfited so as more money pours into the bitcoin network, that value is distributed amongst the existing bitcoin thus raising it's value as more money is absorbed into the system. When widespread adoption is in place, and prices remain stable, then it will start acting like a currency where people can transfer coin to each other and keep a bankroll in coin and not worry about it's volatility.
Mining is just running a transaction server on the bitcoin network. For letting the system use your machine, the system pays back a little bitcoin to a particular miner(the one that solves the block). Every 10 minutes the bitcoin network releases 25 bitcoin and the computer that solves the block gets rewarded those bitcoin. Since it is so difficult to actually solve a block with a single computer, most people join pools and share the block reward when the pool hits the reward.
Right now, callilng it a currency is a little premature. It's value lies right now it it's frictionless state. The ability to send someone an amount of money without a middleman. That means I can send someone money anywhere in the world over the internet without a credit card or money transfer agent. It really is huge if you think about it. It opens up a ton of potentional for small businesses and poor countries. The value people perceive is that there is a limited amount of bitcoin that will ever be made. They cannot be counterfited so as more money pours into the bitcoin network, that value is distributed amongst the existing bitcoin thus raising it's value as more money is absorbed into the system. When widespread adoption is in place, and prices remain stable, then it will start acting like a currency where people can transfer coin to each other and keep a bankroll in coin and not worry about it's volatility.
P
prime
TID Board Of Directors
- Dec 31, 2011
- 1,178
- 254
Not counterfeiting. The system releases 25 bitcoin into the network every 10 minutes. It's more akin to a lottery where your computer works to solve and if it finds a solution to the block, it wins the prize.
The first 4 years of bitcoin it released 50 coin, second 4 years, it will release 25 coin, then 12.5 coin, and so on. It will take about 140 years to mine the last coin.
It's what email is to the snail mail as what bitcoin is to fiat. The fact alone that you cannot print money on a whim(like the USA has been doing) and dilute existing money is huge. The banks have you on an inflationary system. It's why a house was $5000 50 years ago and now $250,000 for an equivalent house today. The debt based system in place ensures that you can never pay back all the debt because no money would exist if it was paid off. With bitcoin, this type of inflation cannot occur. Instead, as more value enters the network, it cost less bitcoin to buy things because the fixed amount must be used to spread the wealth = like a virtual gold.
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P
prime
TID Board Of Directors
- Dec 31, 2011
- 1,178
- 254
It remains to be seen how Gox will filter through. I feel it is a small bump, but a year from now, it will be long forgotten. With forensic work, the money can be traced and recovered. Heck, the exchange is still around 20% solvent by most accounts and that is more then most banks as a reference. Just a VERY VERY badly run business for many years with poor accounting practices that took multiple years to catch an issue. The issue is NOT digital currency....it is a poorly run exchange.
That said, as for value of it....Again, it is what it can do. 100% secure instant transactions to anyone anywhere in the world without needing a bank to do it. Un hack-able and free from inflation or manipulation. In fact they will in theory be the opposite of inflation since there is a set amount that will ever exist.
While some may say gold, has had intrinsic value for centuries, it is because of it's scarcity that it has had this. Aluminum used to be worth more then gold. Now it is so cheap we package our beverages in it. The 'dollar' and other printed currencies have a tough road ahead in the futures global economy. A system such as this (maybe not bitcoin) will likely be the eventual currency.
The volatility will settle down in time. As we speak, people and large companies are investing hundreds of millions in a digital future world. I subscribe to a news group on crytptos. New exchange in Hong Kong, China....ATM's in us cities set to use Bitcoin.... It is only a small ripple now, but soon enough it will be everywhere.
I am betting on Litecoin for a number of reasons. Hoping Bitcoin is "myspace" and Litecoin is "Facebook". The second guy fixes things and does it better. This is already the case with the network and transaction speed. Also in generation. (a more diverse mining group vs highly centralized mining).
I am just a very small player in the mining world. Really a hobbiest. The pools that I mine (think co op) have some heavy hitters on them. Guys with easily 300,000-400,000 k in equipment and they are 50 deep (on just one pool). These guys are big players with big investments and operating costs to mine these coins.
My setup is just about 10k and costs me about 340/ month in electricity. At current rates, it produces about 1600/month in coins. (which obviously will be worth more if the value rises). I figured on initial investment that the payback was 6-7 months....but you never really know. If some speculations hit (like predicting that Litecoin will be $100-150 by end of 14), my 10k could be 100 or 150. Lots of time and events between now and then.
But like I said, this is a lot of fun. I enjoy managing the mining. It is some fun problem solving. I even day trade with a little of the product (on a different exchange
Nice home mining going on there MacGyver. Gox really ****ed up. I highly doubt they refunded all those coins thru the transaction malleabilty bug. I think it was a used as a convenient excuse to cover up some other shady stuff going on.
Gstacker
MuscleHead
- Aug 19, 2011
- 2,149
- 254
Been living like like a hermit rolling with the punches my brother....
yes I agree gold has always been valuable but why? What was it good for back then?
You know the theory of aliens breeding people and planting them on earth to mine gold to run there space ships? Lol
crazy documentary that will get the wheels turning but anyways I compare gold to bitcoin before gold had any real use other than being a rare metal used for trade. It's a confusing concept to grasp but it's no different than printed cash.... It's just an idea
yes I agree gold has always been valuable but why? What was it good for back then?
You know the theory of aliens breeding people and planting them on earth to mine gold to run there space ships? Lol
crazy documentary that will get the wheels turning but anyways I compare gold to bitcoin before gold had any real use other than being a rare metal used for trade. It's a confusing concept to grasp but it's no different than printed cash.... It's just an idea
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