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Who is worse, Sanders or Clinton?

Which of these people would make you want to move out of America MORE


  • Total voters
    23
  • Poll closed .
Hittin

Hittin

VIP Member
Jan 24, 2012
98
19
You know how cities like Los Angeles have hundreds of apartment buildings that have dozens of Mexicans crammed into a one bedroom, like literally 12 people sleeping all over the place, because theyre willing to work below minimum wage? If you think thats a good way for Americans to be living then lets get rid of minomum wage. Because thats what happens.

The Market, left totally unchecked, filters all the money to a very select group of people (that doesnt include you or me either). This isnt a mystery either. In england, france, rome, everywhere thats had this system the result is a massive peasant class and a small aristocracy. No thank you.


The idea of the US as a meritocracy is also a myth. I type this sitting at one of my best friends houses, who lives off money that was earned by a relative in the 1800s whose name he doesnt ever remember without calling his grandmother and asking. No one in his family has worked in over 5 generations.

You are confusing Mexicans slammed in an apartment here in LA with Americans. Two different things. Illegal labor vs Legal labor. It's none of your business what someones' great, great, great grandpa did to provide for his family and future generations. Good for your friend, tell him to break you off some coin. Meritocracy does work, look at Obama,...your left wing friend and his ilk drool over the dude. How about Bill Gates? NFL players? Athletes? Scientists, Engineers, small business. The "problem" is it doesn't work for everybody, welcome to life.
 
Hittin

Hittin

VIP Member
Jan 24, 2012
98
19
Lastly, that pig bitch is the worst. Her fat ugly carpet munching ass needs to be in orange real ****ing soon. Meat Puppet, is about 8 months from dropping dead of old age but at least that dude is honest...he is gonna make middle class poor and poor, more poor.
 
monsoon

monsoon

Senior Bacon VIP
Nov 1, 2010
5,007
1,670
My biggest problem with a $15 minimum wage is that the cost of living will double and now I'm the working poor.
 
RAIDEN

RAIDEN

VIP Member
Feb 22, 2012
4,385
1,345
My biggest problem with a $15 minimum wage is that the cost of living will double and now I'm the working poor.
The increase in goods and services will get passed on to the consumer. It's a no win situation. Business profits will decrease and diminish, inflation will rise, jobs will be lost and replaced to automation and/or outsorced, not to mention the tax the minimum wage worker pays will rise because they make more now, therefore offsetting all the perks 15$ an hour looks like, while starting back at square one.

Instead of increasing minimum wage here in Californian, let's scrap that 64 billion dollar high speed rail project that nobody wants, except politicians who will benefit from it, and invest SOME of that money into helping people learn skills through training and education programs, that will then allow them to earn a higher wage.
 
Hittin

Hittin

VIP Member
Jan 24, 2012
98
19
How the hell did any mental midget come up with $15? So now these "poor" people will STFU? They will take themselves out of poverty? That is considered the "living wage"? Pandering is all this crap is and the truth is, you can't pay some people enough money to avoid being poor, take a look at lotto winners and pro athletes as well as many trust fund babies. It's a big phucking hoax and only an absolute phucking drone can't see how hard this will make employment for more people than it helps, especially over the long wrong.
 
HGH

HGH

MuscleHead
Jan 11, 2013
1,215
185
You are confusing Mexicans slammed in an apartment here in LA with Americans. Two different things. Illegal labor vs Legal labor. It's none of your business what someones' great, great, great grandpa did to provide for his family and future generations. Good for your friend, tell him to break you off some coin. Meritocracy does work, look at Obama,...your left wing friend and his ilk drool over the dude. How about Bill Gates? NFL players? Athletes? Scientists, Engineers, small business. The "problem" is it doesn't work for everybody, welcome to life.

There is no difference between legal and illegal labor if you remove the minimum wage.

You just said in the same sentence that meritocracy works and then mentioned Obama, who cannot afford to live in my buddy's neighborhood. My buddy who is living off stock shares that were bought during slavery, and didn't bother finishing high school. he couldn't work even if he were inclined to because he doesn't have a diploma. and he pays a lower tax rate than you do (and than i do).

the percentage of people who actually move up in class based on work is extremely minor. the people working the hardest are not making the most money.
 
IronCore

IronCore

Bigger Than MAYO - VIP
Sep 9, 2010
4,321
1,538
There is no difference between legal and illegal labor if you remove the minimum wage.You just said in the same sentence that meritocracy works and then mentioned Obama, who cannot afford to live in my buddy's neighborhood. My buddy who is living off stock shares that were bought during slavery, and didn't bother finishing high school. he couldn't work even if he were inclined to because he doesn't have a diploma. and he pays a lower tax rate than you do (and than i do). the percentage of people who actually move up in class based on work is extremely minor. the people working the hardest are not making the most money.
rather than whine about it it being unfair you need to take the same opportunity to invest your time and money and make a better future for your up and coming generations... wait... never mind... your the victim here... you cant... and you not a "breeder" so you cant do that either... scratch that... carry on... your right... it isnt fair... take that rich guys money, especially since it was earned during the slavery days... everyone knows thats just bad!
 
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

Senior Moderators
Staff Member
Dec 25, 2010
6,313
5,000
the percentage of people who actually move up in class based on work is extremely minor. the people working the hardest are not making the most money.

It doesn't bother me that there are rich people who don't have to work. It doesn't bother me that they set up trusts for their kids either. I'm not sure why it should matter to any of us, except that we as humans tend to be envious. But that really is an ugly character trait, and I try to push that down whenever it bares its ugly head in my mind.

I do agree that high marginal tax rates are extremely negative, in that they prevent people from becoming rich (whatever "rich" is). My tax rate is 39%, followed by the 3.8% investment income Obamacare surcharge, 6.2% FICA tax, 1.45/2.35% medicare tax (1.45% on income < $200K, 2.35% on income > $200K), state tax, city tax, property tax, sales tax, gas tax. Add all that up, and I think I'm paying my fair share. So for every dollar that I "earn", the gov't collectively gets about $0.55). It's pretty hard for me and others like me to get rich when I don't even get to keep half my earnings...

The best way for the rich people to keep me out of their country club is to jack up taxes, because taxes only tax the "next" dollar of income, it doesn't touch the wealth that the rich already have. Jack up tax rate to 95%, and you won't screw the rich. They can stop working any time they wish and it won't affect their lifestyle one iota. But high tax rates will cause stratification of the U.S. people, and prevent the middle class from ever becoming wealthy.
 
HGH

HGH

MuscleHead
Jan 11, 2013
1,215
185
rather than whine about it it being unfair you need to take the same opportunity to invest your time and money and make a better future for your up and coming generations... wait... never mind... your the victim here... you cant... and you not a "breeder" so you cant do that either... scratch that... carry on... your right... it isnt fair... take that rich guys money, especially since it was earned during the slavery days... everyone knows thats just bad!

it's not about victimhood.

you can't make as much money as he has either. almost no one can. if you're making six figures you'd still have to work until you're hundreds of years old. i am an architect, and the richest architect on earth has less money than he has. doctors have less. scientists have less.

it's not about jealousy, i am doing fine. it's about my realizing that the current system funnels mass quantities of money to a small group of people, many of whom are not working hard, or at all. even entertainers and athletes are at least bringing some joy into the world for people.
 
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

Senior Moderators
Staff Member
Dec 25, 2010
6,313
5,000
it's not about victimhood.

you can't make as much money as he has either. almost no one can. if you're making six figures you'd still have to work until you're hundreds of years old. i am an architect, and the richest architect on earth has less money than he has. doctors have less. scientists have less.

it's not about jealousy, i am doing fine. it's about my realizing that the current system funnels mass quantities of money to a small group of people, many of whom are not working hard, or at all. even entertainers and athletes are at least bringing some joy into the world for people.

I understand that it must be frustrating to see someone not choose to be productive, and yet not have to "pay" for it. But that guy just doesn't lay on his pile of money. Those dollars are likely invested, and become available for various businesses as growth capital, etc. In that way, the money is actually be used very productively to provide growth in the economy. If you were to take that money away from him, liquidate all his investments, and let the gov't "invest" that money to poor people as transfer payments, that money would also be used, but in the aggregate it would be used much less efficiently, and thus not create the same amount of growth. It's like throwing newspaper on a fire, it'll flare up and create a large splash of flame, but will burn out quickly and then be gone. The invested money is like a thick, dense hardwood that burns long and slow and feeds the combustion of other materials around it.

So in the long run, I'd rather have the Gates Foundation spending its money than the gov't taking it away and spending it for them.

And our system does not "funnel" money to the wealthy. That sounds like the system is rigged against one group of people. Capitalism actually provides for significant income mobility. Crony capitalism, however, does the opposite. Here's an interesting article about that....

http://www.againstcronycapitalism.o...-mobility-that-matters-not-income-inequality/
 
Hittin

Hittin

VIP Member
Jan 24, 2012
98
19
There is no difference between legal and illegal labor if you remove the minimum wage.

You just said in the same sentence that meritocracy works and then mentioned Obama, who cannot afford to live in my buddy's neighborhood. My buddy who is living off stock shares that were bought during slavery, and didn't bother finishing high school. he couldn't work even if he were inclined to because he doesn't have a diploma. and he pays a lower tax rate than you do (and than i do).

the percentage of people who actually move up in class based on work is extremely minor. the people working the hardest are not making the most money.

The basis of meritocracy is not a singular monetary achievement. Being POTUS is hardly the most financially rewarding job, why should Obama be able to live in uber rich neighborhoods? Meritocracy works but nobody with an ounce of sense believes that it works in every case it is also predicated on the person's behaviour and choices.
 
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