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Which bulilds muscle better, dropsets or negatives?

I

IronDan

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Oct 23, 2018
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I have tried both but I am not sure, I am a minimalist person who prefers simplicity over variety. Knowing which is the better one would be nice so I could stick to that.
 
R

rawdeal

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Nov 29, 2013
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Not the answer hard core minimalists are after, but ...........
back in the day, Joe Weider and others would spout "Principles," and one of them is muscle confusion. Don't try to find any one training style you're gonna stick to forever. At the very least, if the muscles secretly don't care, your mind is gonna get stale over time, and that will affect training.

My gym is fairly well equipped, I guess I could design a program where all exercises and bodyparts included drop sets, but I doubt that can be done using only negatives.

Muscle confusion might be achieved by doing a routine you've never done before, would German Volume Training satisfy that requirement? Barebones simplicity over variety right there . . .
 
I

IronDan

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Oct 23, 2018
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Thank you for your answer, and you are right, muscle confusion is a very basic principle, I am simply trying to find ways that confuse muscles even if I do the same thing over and over again.
To be honest, I personally dislike Weider's Principles being treated like godly commandments forever. I respect them a lot as they gave the foundation of modern bodybuilding, and most of them still apply, but also a lot of them have been proven obsolete, or at least not fundamental.
What I am striving to achieve now is stretching the limits of simplicity into variety. :)
 
R

rawdeal

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lol, you lost me there.
 
Lizard King

Lizard King

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Drop sets always helped me get over that hump when stuck at a certain weight, didn't incorporate them into body parts I wasn't struggling at.
 
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

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Dec 25, 2010
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Drop sets always helped me get over that hump when stuck at a certain weight, didn't incorporate them into body parts I wasn't struggling at.

I would agree with that. Drop sets were more productive for me.

Didn't do a lot of work with negatives. I think the one thing that is helpful with is getting the feel of a much heavier weight in your hands or across your shoulders. Often times when I'd move up to a heavier weight, just the feel of it psyched me out. By putting 50-100 lbs more on the bar and doing a slow negative (whether bench or squat), I'd get a comfort level with the heavier weight.
 
macgyver

macgyver

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Nov 24, 2011
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I disagree with some of the above.

"Muscle confusion" is just plain silly. By all means certain muscle groups require various movements/angles. No confusion necessary.

The way to grow is simple. Lift something heavier than you did the day before with enough volume to trigger a growth response AND eat enough food that you have the raw materials to grow.

Yes, that means you can essentially do the same workout over and over for YEARS and make great progress. The "change" that happens is over time, you are lifting more and more weight thereby changing the stimulus. Personally I ran the same program for over 3 years and had what many would consider fantastic results. (dont forget the key part about eating for your goals as well).


Drop sets are fatigue based training. For your average weight lifter, 90% of the muscle growth you will achieve in building size is myofibril (new cells). 10%+/- is sarcoplasmic (extra fluid / nutrient uptake). Fatigue training is the sprinkles on the top of a sundae. NOT the icecream. The only people that actually get truly big off that type of training have to rely HEAVILY on drugs to achieve it. Those are huge guys you see who are 'weak'. (so yes, you can get big doing lots of fatigue training). You will also lose it VERY fast as soon as you stop the drugs or training. Contrast that with adaptations due to lifting actually heavy weight (compared to weight that just feels heavy because you dont rest) your muscular growth will be more permanent and less dependent upon outside compounds to maintain. That said, push far enough past natural limits and no type of training will allow a guy to hold on to ungodly amounts of muscle built either way. But the "strong" big guys hold their physiques much better than the big like a balloon guys.

Negatives:. GREAT with caution. It is the eccentric motion that does the most muscular damage. Therefore, if you are going to use them, use them sparingly. Like maybe your last set only and only one exercise. If you need negatives, you are not trying hard enough lifting in your normal sets. In the 9 years I have been back in the gym (and going on 20 years of training), I can count the very few times I have done negative work. (most was when I was young and stupid and thought killing yourself in the gym was the way to grow).

Last point, is there is a lot of study that shows RPE (Rate of perceived exertion) is often INVERSELY proportional to actual muscle stimulation and signaling required to grow muscle. Meaning, the harder you think you are working, the crappier your workout just might be. A great example was I was running 5/3/1 and did not ever feel like I was even training hard or getting any kind of 'pump'. I continued with the progression as dictated as I know there are many who came before me who paved the pathway and I would follow. At about the 9th week, I totally hit the wall and found myself so run down I had to deload. (all this from workouts I never felt were doing anything for me). Over that short period, ALL my major lifts went up (which for a guy who has been training as long as I had at the time is a feat in and of itself). So dont be 'that guy' who is screaming in the corner, running down the dumbbell rack until he gets to the 5 lbs and cant move his arms. Unless you just love that, you are probably doing more harm than good. And again, unless you are taking very large doses of anabolics, no one can adequately recover from that method of training constantly.

My statement is this..... IF there is progress to be made, the "best" (meaning fastest and most efficient) is by using a pre-formatted periodized plan AND eating a calculated surplus. (add in anabolics and you have a the most ideal situation you could hope for). The worse your training is, the more you will rely on anabolics to progress....and the less likly you will be to hang on to your gains when you stop taking said substances. Once you get to the point where progress has all but stopped.....it really does not matter what you do. It takes very little to maintain. When I am asked, I tell people all the time NOT to do what I do. It is a total waste of time. IF I had progress that I could be making, I would be training a whole lot differently.

I told this to a guy who asked when I was doing shrugs and my back/traps are pretty strong visually on me. He asked about getting his traps big and I told him DONT shurg. This is a waste of time. DEADLIFT. I shared that up until 2 years ago, I never did a shrug. I would however do quite a bit of deadlifting and heavy standing OHP (both great trap builders).

Just my ramble.....
 
ITAWOLF

ITAWOLF

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Dec 9, 2010
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I like the Heavy Duty program --Mike Mentzer
but I also change thru the year to a lot of body weight workouts

but I don't count sets per say

I like to kill a body part by total reps of fair to mod weight
ie if I work delts or shoulders I shoot for a total of 130-160reps

db Arnold press with 50s till failure ---42reps
db high pulls w 40s till failure ----24reps
db pushout w 40 till failure ---21reps
db figure 8s ----8reps
landmine kneeling narrow to wide shoulder press with 25plate/45bar---12reps right 9reps left
landmine meadows row 45 bar only ---18 reps right 17reps left
farmers carry with 2 25plates 190feet 2x (from front of gym to back door n back)

between a min or two rest between each

that was Saturday night and only delt/shoulder I will do this week
 
ITAWOLF

ITAWOLF

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Dec 9, 2010
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agree with MAC

shit try carrying 80+ gear day in dayout
I have and it does build up strength and some meat

u can press 400 all day but for me I rather be able to pick one of my wounded brothers up and tote their ass for miles

sorry FD just cant tote ur ass esp when u can fly!!!
 
ITAWOLF

ITAWOLF

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Dec 9, 2010
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I told this to a guy who asked when I was doing shrugs and my back/traps are pretty strong visually on me. He asked about getting his traps big and I told him DONT shurg. This is a waste of time. DEADLIFT. I shared that up until 2 years ago, I never did a shrug. I would however do quite a bit of deadlifting and heavy standing OHP (both great trap builders).

Just my ramble.....

Farmers and deads are it for traps!!!!!

and farmers ur doing nothing lol but walking lol
 
HDH

HDH

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Sep 30, 2011
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I have tried both but I am not sure, I am a minimalist person who prefers simplicity over variety. Knowing which is the better one would be nice so I could stick to that.
There really is no reason to pick only one.

I do not train heavy, at all. Most of my workouts run in the 15 to 50 rep range, I utilize dropsets, stripping, slow negatives, supersets, trisets, giantsets, pre exhaust, partial reps, etc...

I know you are stating simplicity but the point I would like to make is don't limit yourself. Use every tool you have.

I haven't gone heavy in years. It's about tearing your muscles down properly without over or under training them.
 
IronInsanity

IronInsanity

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May 3, 2011
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I have tried both but I am not sure, I am a minimalist person who prefers simplicity over variety. Knowing which is the better one would be nice so I could stick to that.
Probably doesn't matter. Do compounds for most of your gains. Getting a pump feels great in the gym do do whichever one gives you the best pump, but your gains are going to come mainly from compounds.
 
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