What builds/spares more muscle high carb moderate protein or high protein low carb when calories are equal?

[dashriprock]

I was told to shoot for 400g of protein, roughly 2x bw (lbs).

Then someone else said that's excessive and all I need is 1x bw and more carbs because carbs are anabolic.

Protein is unlikely to offer any special benefits (to added muscle mass) beyond optimal consumption, but because carbohydrates lead to insulin secretion, and because insulin is highly anabolic over time and when paired with resistance training, eating as much carbohydrate as possible within constraints is practical for muscle gain. Carbohydrates are so valuable for muscle gain that the recommendation for maximum protein on a hypercaloric diet should likely be capped at around 1.5g of protein per pound of body weight per day so that a greater caloric value of carbs can be programmed.

Data has consistently shown that consumption above about 0.9g of protein per pound of body weight per day does not enhance muscle gain. Since carbs do not have quite as low a cap for their anabolic effects, any extra protein consumed is going to risk pushing out carbs within the constraint of calories, and thus net anabolism could suffer. Our recommendation for optimal muscle growth is therefore around 1.0g of protein per pound of body weight per day.

Consuming carbohydrates is an extremely powerful means of preventing muscle loss. Carbs provide an energy source that prevents the breakdown of tissue for fuel. In addition, anabolism is achieved via both glycogen- and insulin-mediated pathways, both of which are directly affected by carb intake. Elevations in blood glucose resulting from carbohydrate consumption lead to the secretion of insulin, a highly anabolic hormone. Although insulin is anabolic to both muscle and fat tissue, for leaner individuals doing resistance training, the net effect of insulin is biased towards building muscle tissue more than fat tissue. Like many other hormones (be it testosterone, growth hormone, estrogen, etc.), insulin exerts most of its power when its concentration is chronically elevated. If insulin is high post-workout for an hour but very low during the rest of the day, the total exposure of the muscles to insulin is relatively insignificant. If insulin is instead elevated for a large portion of each day, its anabolic and anti-catabolic signaling effects can add up to make substantial differences in muscularity over the long (months) term.

What is the correct answer?

 

[gotclen]

I was told to shoot for 400g of protein, roughly 2x bw (lbs).

Then someone else said that's excessive and all I need is 1x bw and more carbs because carbs are anabolic.





What is the correct answer?

This question is much more involved than what statement is correct.
so many factors play into nutrition.
Like your body type.
How much lean mass you have above your normal body weight.
How heavy or intense you train.
What your daily activity is like ie job, hobbies, kids do you run? Etc.
the list goes on and on.
My quick reply would be 1 to 1.5 grams protein. Carbs are great and needed for sure to grow. What about healthy fats? Huge part to. So you have much more to consider than just this question.
good luck keep learning and building your own meal plans. Learn what works for you. It might not work on the next guy.
All the best,
GC

 

[19Norris]

Not to be an asshole, but if you’re asking this kind of question you certainly don’t need to be eating 400g of protein a day.

Also like clen said there are many factors. I’d say just try to get a regimen down and then dial in the macros. Don’t forget the fats either. Once I took fats serious I saw a certain change.

 

[dashriprock]

if you’re asking this kind of question you certainly don’t need to be eating 400g of protein a day.

Why is that?

 

[19Norris]

Why is that?

Because big ass dudes that do this stuff for a living require 400g

 

[Ogre717]

GC beat me to it. We need to know a lot more about you to help steer you in the right direction. Age, height, weight, training experience, current diet, WHAT ARE YOUR GOALS, etc... The more we know about you, the better advice we can give.

 

[genetic freak]

What builds more muscle or what spares more muscle? Two different questions. For me, no matter how much protein I take in, I will not grow much without an adequate amount of carbs. However, during a cut if I take in enough protein, I can cut my carbs to zero and will not lose muscle. Moral to the story, protein is always high, around 1.5 grams per lbs of LBM, no matter what. Adjust the carbs and fats based on what I am doing.

 

[CFM]

1 - 1.5g protein. Today I take in more fats (avocado, nuts, olive oil) than I do total carbohydrate calories. Remember: carbs have 4 calories/ gram, fats have 9 calories/gram.

We all started somewhere. I started with 70's food scale and stuck to a set intake and adjusted calories up or down to achieve my goals.

Decades later I discovered fats and in applying them properly, propelled my physique to another level.

 

[Wilson6]

The answer is it depends. Genetics, training style, what one is taking PEDs, etc. I have found a 50/30/20 PRO/CHO/FAT to work well esp in women on T and other AAS. Carb refeeds depending on how they look. You can quickly see someone going flat and then performance goes next, catch it in time and you keep the lean up. Androgens change a female physiology, they do much better on carbs than without androgens, just my observations. In the end for men or women, on or off PEDs, you have to figure out what works best for you under what conditions. Like PEDs, everyone is different. So many variables to consider. Tracking kcal and macros is critical, in general women will not eat enough and that keeps them small and fat. High protein allows one to eat enough and not be hungry. Protein is the hardest for the body to convert to fat and the glyconeogenic amino acids can be used to make glucose if you are on lower carbs. There have been studies that have looked at PRO intake as high as 4g/kg or about 2 g/lb, no adverse effects.

 

[dashriprock]

Age, height, weight

49, 5'11", 235

training experience

training 7 years. best lifts squat 500x5, bench 350x3, dl 510x6, 610x1

current diet

one week of training and nutrition is listed below

2/22

pull-ups +45x7, +25x10, BWx18
chest supported row 270x6, 180x15
barbell row 315x6, 225x15
lat pull down 160x10, 120x21
seated cable row 160x11, 120x22
cable rope pullover 70x15, 60x19
db side laterals 40x10,8
single arm tricep push down 30x30,30
cable fly 20x15,15
single arm cable drag curl 30x30,30

cardio 30 minutes

2/21-------430g Protein, 35g Carbs, 22g Fat

2/21

roman chair 60x15
leg extension 50x13
leg curl 50x11
squat 350x11, 240x21, 420x1
leg press 470x14, 350x26

cardio 60 minutes

2/20------407g Protein, 104g Carbs, 36g Fat

2/20

db flat bench 60x11, 60x9, 60x19
3-second negatives, solid pause at the bottom, 2-second contraction at the top
high incline barbell press 130x9, 115x12, 100x21
dips BWx15, BWx12, BWx8, w/ss
cable bent bar pullover 65x9, 55x14, 45x22
db side laterals 25x17,13
single arm tricep push down 25x30,30
cable fly 20x12,16
single arm cable drag curl 25x16,14

cardio 90 minutes

2/19------405g Protein, 113g Carbs, 82g Fat

2/19

roman chair 60x15
leg extension 50x10
leg curl 50x10
squat 350x6, 250x21
leg press 470x13, 350x24

cardio 90 minutes

2/18---328g Protein, 108g Carbs, 63g Fat

2/18

pull-ups +45x6, +25x8, BWx10
chest supported row 270x9, 180x25
barbell row 315x4, 225x11
lat pull down 140x20, 90x27
seated cable row 150x22, 100x33
cable rope pullover 65x15, 50x28
db side laterals 25x16,20
single arm tricep push down 25x30,30
cable fly 20x15,15
single arm cable drag curl 25x30,30

cardio 90 minutes

2/17-------322g Protein, 75g Carbs, 96g Fat

2/17

roman chair 60x9
leg extension 50x15
leg curl 50x9
squat 330x9, 240x24
leg press 450x11, 330x28

cardio 60 minutes

2/16------282g Protein, 79g Carbs, 47g Fat

2/16

flat barbell bench 280x7, 200x20 w/ss
high incline barbell press 140x8, 100x21
dips +90x6, +45x10 w/ss
cable bent bar pullover 60x16, 40x27
db side laterals 25x22
single arm tricep push down 25x30
cable fly 20x12
single arm cable drag curl 25x16

cardio 30 minutes

2/15------271g Protein, 46g Carbs, 35g Fat

2/15

roman chair 45x12
leg extension 45x10
leg curl 45x10
squat 330x8, 240x23
leg press 390x10, 280x26

cardio 60 minutes

2/14---252g Protein, 27g Carbs, 17g Fat

WHAT ARE YOUR GOALS

220lbs lean.

As of today, I think I would be 205 if lean.

 

[dashriprock]

@Ogre717

the only reason I even ask the question is I have a friend who is very study and science based in his approach.

he loves to tell me I'm doing it wrong, subtly but it's what he is getting at.

usually, I say to people if you are not bigger than me or stronger who cares what you think of what I eat or how I train.

but I respect his opinions and he is 210lbs lean just not as strong

I think I got my answer though. 200-300 is fine. 400 is overkill.

 

[19Norris]

Get some more fats too. I’d say around 75g