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Using Aromasin during PCT

Stinky Tofu

Stinky Tofu

Member
Aug 3, 2013
96
15
#1
Now, I've read endless articles and anecdotal reports but I've never found an answer to this specific question/idea... If test is low post-cycle then isn't estrogen also low post-cycle? This is of course assuming that estrogen was kept in check during cycle. So my guess is that whatever E2 from aromatizing compounds is leftover and filtered by the body. Since test is low no new E2 would be forming since there is not much to aromatize. And, isn't it ideal to have a decent amount of estrogen in your body? If people are running 12.5-25mg EOD on cycle to control estrogen, why doesn't the recommended dose of 25mg ED during PCT crash your estrogen and leave you in worse shape?

im ending my first week of PCT with clomid 50mg and nolva 20mg and I'm sitting on some boxes of aromasin. I'm also afraid of crashing my system because I ran letro on cycle for 10 days at full dose and I felt like complete shit, but I only needed to add an extra jab of prop or HCG to get my estro back up in a few days. That's not happening during PCT


just a question. I wanna hear the science behind it.
 
M

Miker

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2011
142
21
#3
I haven't ran a pct in years but I would only run aroma or adex with hcg after cycle before nolva and/or clomid is started to help control estro from the hcg.
 
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
#4
Hmm I guess the question is? Is using an AI helpful towards diminishing the increased E-2 which occurs as a result of HCG use, the latter being necessary before the onset of SERM PCT?

The answer MAY surprise you, because AIs DO NOT effect the TESTICULAR generation of ESTROGEN brought on by HCG! (HCG DIRECTLY stimulates gonadal E-2 production)

However since the MAJORITY of E-2 is the consequence of PERIPHERAL TT aromatization, AIs are indeed BENEFICIAL in lowering total body estrogen from HCG use!

Jim
 
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Stinky Tofu

Stinky Tofu

Member
Aug 3, 2013
96
15
#5
Hmm I guess the question is? Is using an AI helpful towards diminishing the increased E-2 which occurs as a result of HCG use, the latter being necessary before the onset of SERM PCT?

The answer MAY surprise you, because AIs DO NOT effect the TESTICULAR generation of ESTROGEN brought on by HCG! (HCG DIRECTLY stimulates gonadal E-2 production)

However since the MAJORITY of E-2 is the consequence of PERIPHERAL TT aromatization, AIs are indeed BENEFICIAL in lowering total body estrogen from HCG use!

Jim
So estrogen produced in the testes is not via the aromatization of androgens? I'm asking, not being smug. I've never come across this.

But no, the question I had in mind is does an AI even matter at all PCT if a SERM is occupying estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus? And if testosterone is low after cycle what would there be to aromatize and cause an unwanted sides? A lot of the old school broscience says that estrogen levels go up post-cycle, which makes sense if they are high on cycle and then you quit androgen use... but then doesn't that excess estrogen get filtered out? In reality there is no more new estrogen being created post-cycle, it's just the leftovers from being on AAS.

Anyways, I did what some online experts state and I took aromasin at 25mg a day. After the 3rd day I felt awful and had night sweats. I'll be sticking with SERMS only.
 
PillarofBalance

PillarofBalance

Strength Pimp
Feb 27, 2011
17,066
4,635
#6
Hmm I guess the question is? Is using an AI helpful towards diminishing the increased E-2 which occurs as a result of HCG use, the latter being necessary before the onset of SERM PCT?

The answer MAY surprise you, because AIs DO NOT effect the TESTICULAR generation of ESTROGEN brought on by HCG! (HCG DIRECTLY stimulates gonadal E-2 production)

However since the MAJORITY of E-2 is the consequence of PERIPHERAL TT aromatization, AIs are indeed BENEFICIAL in lowering total body estrogen from HCG use!

Jim
Is this also why you recommend HCG just prior to PCT as opposed to the 250iu 2x weekly while on?
 
GetXXL

GetXXL

Member
Oct 3, 2012
27
1
#7
Hmm I guess the question is? Is using an AI helpful towards diminishing the increased E-2 which occurs as a result of HCG use, the latter being necessary before the onset of SERM PCT?

The answer MAY surprise you, because AIs DO NOT effect the TESTICULAR generation of ESTROGEN brought on by HCG! (HCG DIRECTLY stimulates gonadal E-2 production)

However since the MAJORITY of E-2 is the consequence of PERIPHERAL TT aromatization, AIs are indeed BENEFICIAL in lowering total body estrogen from HCG use!

Jim
Why wouldn't it? AIs inhibit aromatase independent of its location. The increase in E2 production from the testes is the direct result of increased aromatase expression due to LHR activation of hCG, as well as an increase in substrate availability as it upregulates most steroidogenic enzymes towards testosterone.

Is this also why you recommend HCG just prior to PCT as opposed to the 250iu 2x weekly while on?
2x 250 IU EW is a low dosage, see the clinical trial by Coviello et al. 250 IU EOD seemed to approach physiological levels of testosterone production; which you would like to mimic.

So estrogen produced in the testes is not via the aromatization of androgens? I'm asking, not being smug. I've never come across this.

But no, the question I had in mind is does an AI even matter at all PCT if a SERM is occupying estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus? And if testosterone is low after cycle what would there be to aromatize and cause an unwanted sides? A lot of the old school broscience says that estrogen levels go up post-cycle, which makes sense if they are high on cycle and then you quit androgen use... but then doesn't that excess estrogen get filtered out? In reality there is no more new estrogen being created post-cycle, it's just the leftovers from being on AAS.

Anyways, I did what some online experts state and I took aromasin at 25mg a day. After the 3rd day I felt awful and had night sweats. I'll be sticking with SERMS only.
I'm actually quite clueless why one would use an AI in conjunction to a SERM during PCT.

Your latter statement is also true; the absolute synthesis of estrogen is quite low (however it usually is, relative to androgen synthesis, quite high during PCT),and the half-life of E2 is rather short, so there isn't really any 'left-over' estrogen.
 
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Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,442
644
#8
To be honest, I could care less about using hcg while on cycle for physiological pruposes... all I care about is that it keeps ejaculate volume up! I hate shooting blanks or low volume, it isn't as satisfying and hcg helps to keep the production up that exogenous test seems to shut down. I'm in favor of a single shot a week before starting PCT of about 2,500 IU. I do not believe this is anywhere close to the realm of having to worry about desensitization.
 
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
#10
----------------

Why wouldn't it? AIs inhibit aromatase independent of its location. The increase in E2 production from the testes is the direct result of increased aromatase expression due to LHR activation of hCG, as well as an increase in substrate availability as it upregulates most steroidogenic enzymes towards testosterone.


2x 250 IU EW is a low dosage, see the clinical trial by Coviello et al. 250 IU EOD seemed to approach physiological levels of testosterone production; which you would like to mimic.

AND for that very reason the extrapolation is not accurate mate. The study patients were HYPOGONADAL with LOW TT levels while the former is an accurate comparison to cyclists the latter IS NOT. Because for some reason once ENDOGENOUS TT levels reach the upper physiologic range (1000-1500ng/dl) the addition of HCG does NOT cause a further increase in TT.


jim


I'm actually quite clueless why one would use an AI in conjunction to a SERM during PCT.

Your latter statement is also true; the absolute synthesis of estrogen is quite low (however it usually is, relative to androgen synthesis, quite high during PCT),and the half-life of E2 is rather short, so there isn't really any 'left-over' estrogen.
 
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
#11
To be honest, I could care less about using hcg while on cycle for physiological pruposes... all I care about is that it keeps ejaculate volume up! I hate shooting blanks or low volume, it isn't as satisfying and hcg helps to keep the production up that exogenous test seems to shut down. I'm in favor of a single shot a week before starting PCT of about 2,500 IU. I do not believe this is anywhere close to the realm of having to worry about desensitization.

Interesting perspective GS!

However since the majority (80%) of seminal fluid is derived from the prostate (20%) and seminal vesicles (60%) with the gonads contributing around 20% HCG should NOT have much of an influence on it's production, at least theoretically.

Thats because the production of seminal fluid is under the influence of DHT, rather than FSH, LH.
(However, I'll admit I've never looked into the effects of HCG on seminal fluid production)

Best regards
jim
 
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GetXXL

GetXXL

Member
Oct 3, 2012
27
1
#12
----------------
Have you read the study? The men were healthy and normogonadal and had testosterone induced hypogonadism (for the purpose of evaluating the effect of hCG on testosterone production),exactly as is the case with juicers. hCG injection at 250 IU EOD seemed to approach physiological levels of testosterone production based on intratesticular testosterone measurements.
 
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