US military veterans heed Occupy rallying cry

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic Chat' started by F.I.S.T., Nov 3, 2011.

  1. F.I.S.T.

    F.I.S.T. MuscleHead

    Sep 24, 2011
    Here you go guys,now the US military are supporting the occupiers over OUR veterans getting screwed by OUR gov't!!!

    US military veterans heed Occupy rallying cry

    NEW YORK — Thousands of U.S. military veterans are heeding the rallying cry of Occupy Wall Street, saying corporate contractors in Iraq made big money while the troops defending them came home — and can't make a living now.

    "For too long, our voices have been silenced, suppressed and ignored in favor of the voices of Wall Street and the banks and the corporations," said Joseph Carter, a 27-year-old Iraq war veteran who marched Wednesday to Zuccotti Park, the epicenter of the movement that has spread worldwide.

    The former Army sergeant from Seattle spoke to fellow Occupy protesters and passersby on Broadway after joining about 100 veterans marching in uniform from the Vietnam Veterans Plaza through Manhattan's financial district nearby.

    Their unemployment rate outstrips the national average and is expected to worsen. They worry about preservation of First Amendment rights. And they're angry.

    A week before Veterans Day, generations of former U.S. military men and women threw their considerable weight behind the Occupy movement born in mid-September when about 100 protesters also marched in the Wall Street area.

    "For 10 years, we have been fighting wars that have enriched the wealthiest 1 percent, decimated our economy and left our nation with a generation of traumatized and wounded veterans that will require care for years to come," said Carter, who leads the national Iraq Veterans Against the War group.

    Requiring care now in California is a former Marine whose skull was fractured last week when he was injured by a projectile at an Occupy Oakland rally. Police there are now the subject of a formal investigation by the city's Citizens' Police Review Board.

    In New York on Wednesday, police circled the veterans as they stood in formation in front of the New York Stock Exchange, chanting, "We are veterans! We are the 99 percent!" and "Corporate profits on the rise, soldiers have to bleed and die!"

    By the stock exchange, Josh Shepherd, a former Navy petty officer 2nd class who was next to Olsen when he was injured, read the oath members of the armed forces take to defend the U.S. Constitution.

    "We are here to support the Occupy Wall Street movement," he then declared.

    Police officers on scooters separated the veterans from the entrance to the stock exchange. On the other side of the marchers was a lineup of NYPD horses carrying officers with nightsticks.

    "We are marching to express support for our brother, Scott Olsen, who was injured in Oakland," former Army specialist Jerry Bordeleau told The Associated Press earlier.

    At the intersection of Wall Street and Broadway, they paused for a moment of silence for the Marine who served two Iraq tours and remains hospitalized.

    Olsen was honored Wednesday by veterans and other activists at Occupy protests around the nation, from Boston and Philadelphia to Los Angeles and Chicago.

    "Wall Street corporations have played a big role in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan," said Bordeleau, 24, who served several years in Iraq over two tours ending in 2009 and now attends college in New York.

    He said private contractors have reaped big profits in those countries "in pursuit of corporate interests that have had a devastating effect on our economy and our country, benefiting only a small number of people."

    "The 99 percent have to take a stand," Bordeleau said, to rectify the biggest income gap between rich and poor since the Great Depression, fueled by what protesters say is Wall Street's overblown clout in Washington politics.

    From the stock exchange, the veterans walked down Broadway to the bronze bull that symbolizes the stock market.

    "Halliburton and Bechtel think these wars are swell," they chanted, invoking the names of American companies that received federal contracts for work rebuilding Iraq.

    They say those who risked their lives fighting for their country have the right to protest economic policies and business practices that give them a slimmer chance of finding jobs than most Americans.

    From 2008 to 2011, veterans' unemployment rose 5.1 percentage points, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

    And a Department of Labor report shows that unemployment tops 20 percent among 18-to-24-year-old veterans, compared to a national rate of about 9 percent.

    Veteran unemployment is projected to worsen after 10,000 servicemen and servicewomen return from Afghanistan and 46,000 come home from Iraq by year's end — many wounded or suffering from mental trauma.

    Bordeleau, who served in the military police, said his diagnosis of post-traumatic stress disorder has made it impossible to pursue a career in civilian law enforcement, and that he's had a hard time finding jobs that pay more than $10 an hour. He has worked as a groundskeeper at a New York public park, while living on disability benefits.

    "I can't really survive on that," he said.

    Wednesday's protest comes two weeks after another veteran faced off with police in New York.

    Shamar Thomas, a decorated former Marine sergeant from Roosevelt, N.Y., went nose-to-nose with officers policing activists in Times Square.

    "This is not a war zone! These are not armed people!" he told police in a passionate, videotaped plea that has gone viral on YouTube.

    Earlier Wednesday, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said he believes the protest, now in its seventh week, is "really hurting small businesses and families."

    He said the city has worked hard to preserve the protesters' First Amendment rights, but is very concerned about the rights of others in the area. Bloomberg said the city will take action if and when it's appropriate.

    To ease access to small businesses on Wall Street, hundreds of police barricades were removed Wednesday, said Marc LaVorgna, a mayoral spokesman.


    YouTube clip: YouTube - Broadcast Yourself

    Copyright 2011 The Associated Press
  2. F.I.S.T.

    F.I.S.T. MuscleHead

    Sep 24, 2011
    Are these new protestors losers??

    I think not!!
  3. parttimer

    parttimer VIP Member

    Oct 11, 2011
    Did these Veterans get drafted to go fight in the war? I think they volunteered, then when they got out, or resigned their position, they like 15% of the population couldn't find a job. I don't think we are needlessly picking on Veterans and not giving them a job are we? I KNOW I was passed over for a job because a Vet got extra points...
    SAD likes this.
  4. F.I.S.T.

    F.I.S.T. MuscleHead

    Sep 24, 2011
    Are you saying that the Vets that were wounded or killed in the bullshit war are not worthy of your sympathy because they volunteered??? You're a disgrace if that's what you're saying! Guys who gave their life or were wounded so you can enjoy the freedom you have and you're upset because a Vet got picked over you for a job?? Sorry but if I have to choose who DESERVES a job you or someone who has put their lives on the line to support you and everyone else in this country,i'll pick them 100% of the time!

    As for them being picked on,no-one said they're being picked on.You just stated the problem,EVERYONE is having trouble finding a job! It shouldn't be this way.Everyone should be able to find a job in their field.Instead too many Americans are left with debt and nothing else.Too many Vets that were taken away from their jobs and family to go fight a war,came back to no jobs and no support from the very gov't they fought for!
    Ogre717 likes this.
  5. captaincaveman

    captaincaveman TID Board Of Directors

    Oct 17, 2010
    No one is forced to join the military. Although in my case, personally, it would have done me A LOT of good to serve a few years. Rarely have I met a former military person that was not changed for the better due to their service.

    Now, with that said, they signed on the dotted line. There are no guarantees for any of us. Veterans DO get special preference. Veterans do get special loan and loan terms.

    This point is at the heart of having a volunteer military. You should be special, and you are treated special, but NO GUARANTEES. We have "guaranteed" and "basic human righted" ourselves to the brink of bankruptcy.

    And, saying you joined and did not know you couldn't/wouldn't get a job is like me screwing a girl and getting her pregnant and saying I did not know all the risks.

    Thank you for all that have served. I have the greatest respect for each of you. If you are a protester, you served and sacrificed for the right to protest. At the same time, I have been working and paying taxes. These too are sacrifices. We have been a great team! THAT IS HOW AMERICA WORKS. Two way respect - NOT two way agreement at all times.

    SAD and Ogre717 like this.
  6. F.I.S.T.

    F.I.S.T. MuscleHead

    Sep 24, 2011

    Very well said CC.

    I have served and fought for this country and I was blessed enough to have come home alive and not wounded.Many of my brothers and sisters were not so blessed.

    As for making sacrifices on both sides,although the sacrifices of the civilians will NEVER compare to those of the armed forces,I do agree that all Americans make sacrifices everyday to just survive and thats the point of this whole topic.NO American should be without jobs or healthcare or anything else.In this day and age while the rich continue ti get richer,the middle class are the ones suffering and this shouldn't be.
  7. captaincaveman

    captaincaveman TID Board Of Directors

    Oct 17, 2010
    Much respect sir.

    This is from the IRS. What group should/can pay more?
    National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes?

    Assume I am in the top 10%. How much more of my income do you think I should pay?

    Keep in mind that if ALL the assets of the Forbes 400 were to be confiscated and sold, this would only get you about $4.5 trillion. (We are $14 Trillion in debt). This $4.5 trillion would pay off about a third of our national debt OR run our government for 18 months. GREAT! "Do it" the communists say. But once the assets are gone, this group earns no money. Those paying 40% of the taxes are gone.

    Just some thoughts. No disrespect or argument intended. I really am interested in your opinion and the opinions of others.

  8. F.I.S.T.

    F.I.S.T. MuscleHead

    Sep 24, 2011
    That sounds good but why do you think we're in such debt? That 4.5 trillion sure would pay off some Americans mortgages or supply everyone with health care or feed and home the homeless.I can go on forever.The problem is too much of our money is going for all the wrong things.Like supporting every other country in the world.Many of which we have spent billions to go to war with only to spend billions in rebuilding them! That's pretty smart use of our money.We're spending billions on the war on drugs all the while supplying the very cartel with weapons to find us back and the politicians getting paid from both sides of the so called war! Another great act of budgeting.We allow people to stay on welfare pumping out kid after kid and paying for them all along with health care,debit cards which they spend on anything like cars and vacations,and everything that it was not intended for and now we're also paying for their cell phones and internet service!!

    How much of that 14 trillion dollar debt would be eliminated if we corrected these few problems ive mentioned and spent it on the things that there is supposedly no money for because of these failures??
  9. captaincaveman

    captaincaveman TID Board Of Directors

    Oct 17, 2010

    Total defense budget (not just weapons) is only 25% of the budget. We have spent much more than $4.5 trillion on the issues you raise and the long-term outlook is even worse.

    Entitlements (Medicare, medicaid, social security, pensions) is where the big bucks are. No one will touch them.

    But, if you want to shut down military spending, that will surely damage the veterans more than anything I propose.

    To be clear, I know that military spending has the greatest ROI than any other government program. The people that come out of the military are top-notch, well-trained, and disciplined. I say spend more on military but cut elsewhere....which is what the Congress and Obama obviously believe as well - EXCEPT for the cut elsewhere part. They just keep borrowing and kicking the can down the road. Cowards all.
  10. F.I.S.T.

    F.I.S.T. MuscleHead

    Sep 24, 2011
    Couldn't agree with you more.Cutting the defense budget is not the solution.Its all the other bs spending that needs to be cut as you stated.Hopefully the more people speak up,things may change.It has to be MADE to happen.

    Too many cowards are running our country.You're right about that.
    captaincaveman likes this.
  11. poundpuppy

    poundpuppy Senior Member

    Sep 25, 2011
    I believe that if we did away with the current tax system and if everyone one and every business paid a flat tax on income ex. 10% of all money collected then not only would the tax loop holes close but all would pay their fair share and none would be discriminated against. Plus we could do away with 80% of the IRS (just a wild guess) save that money. Not trying to cause a argument just my very humble two cents. I look forward to your replies.
  12. marx

    marx MuscleHead

    Sep 29, 2010
    Cutting needless weapons systems is the answer. The government pays for waepons system that are at the front of the pack. Then sponsors these companies in trade shows around the world, often using our personel and machinery to show off their abilities.

    They sell the technologies.

    Now our government has to buy new stuff cuz allies have technologiesas good as ours. And some dear allies give our enemies access to the equipment.

    The war of choice was supposed to last a few weeks. Shinseki resigned because he was not given enough men. The VA system was not budgeted a realistic amount of money either.

    But that isn't the issue. Not the flats of bills the went "missing"

    Not Halliburton ripping off the system in numerous ways.

    The lack of work is because the system was brought down by greed. And we paid for it.

    Social security ALWAYS runs a surplus. That money paid for Iraq, Bushes famous Trifecta. That money is used to pump up budgets that saw taxes cut to raise tax funds. Like we saw over the last buncha years...

    "Honey, we're going on vacation, I think I'll work less- so we have enough money for our trip."


    Who paid for his war of choice? YOU! But look, it wasn't always like that- even under Mr Reagan. People took pride in their country, paid their taxes.


    *Note whose taxes dropped and whose stayed about the same....

    So the war? Working stiffs paid for it in blood and lost loved ones. They paid for it with their FICA... Oh, and they tell you they IOU's won't be honored. The systems broke. But corporations, financial institutions- we got money for them!

    VA Hospitals are being closed. Budget cuts. But folks who sell you drugs? Paying less taxes than you. Folks selling you cancer in a pack? Less than you- oh, and you'll be paying for their meds at inflated prices because Mr Bush and friends didn't want the bulk discount for medicine, that would hurt campaign contributors.

    Here's how it sizes up:


    So folks making an average of between 1,137,684 dollars and 27, 342,212 dollars pay 40 percent of taxes- but make 300+ percent more than the bottom 90 percent of citizens


    While controlling 66 percent of its worth.


    A segment of society has the rules tilted in their favor. Going by 'the market" they realize a greater benefit from the good our nation offers, those soldiers died to protect them and their assets from harm. If you have a Picasso you expect to pay more than if you have a Thomas Kinkade (those fucking painting kill me, but women love that shit).

    Taxpayers kept financial houses and the stock market afloat. Let the old folks have Social Security- did you know it accounts for about 8% of the GDP? Gross Domestic PRODUCT, and alzheimer programs. Lets get our infrastructure up to par. Trumans highway system should be copied by a rail system. You know what I'm saying. Put Americans to work. Yup, it is an ninvestment- but what business started and grew without capital?

    The military/industrial complex is considered a 'soft budget restraint, Kornai talks about the money sucking non competitive industrial behomoths that eastern europe couldn'tget rid of back in the day, we have all these few non competitive high tech companies supported by our tax dollars that keep a zillion small businesses going supplying parts while they eat the cream off the top. No bid contracts as well. They could be used domestically, putting money back into the economy through wages. And just know, you can talk marxism about Russia and its satellites but it was actually state capitalism, the oligarchic trend the charts above demonstrate that we are becoming a corporate state, which was Mussolinis goal.

    Bottom line. Honor our soldiers, they don't sign up for agent orange and depleted uranium sickness. They deserve benefits that equal what someone get from the perks of a college degree and employment- that is how the volunteer army was planned-

    A 1% tax on trades in the global casino. We propped it up a number of times when it lost, went bust. This is just in the last 20 years: You know, the Mexican bailout. The Japanese Bailout. The good ol Savings and Loan scandal- if you look at these you see the same organizations, the same players names again and again.

    Just idle thoughts. Rambling. This stuff is deep, and I can't scratch the surface in a post. But if your considering your perspective, whatever it is, good.

    But yup, stand by the folks taking a stand. Vets don't get a stock bonus for using up ammo so the arms makers stock goes up. They don't get multimillion end of year bonus for living underfire, their families don't get a "waiting for my Dad and am kinda scared" bonus.

    The market tanked thanks to the folks playing it. Financial Institutions and Corporations are not people. They should pay their fair share and stay out of politics.
    They took the bailout money and- gave executive bonuses, boughtt their own stock- but NO job creation.

    The sheeple are waking up.

    God Bless America!
    F.I.S.T. and fixxer like this.

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