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TRT, E2 and the diabetic...

Gregger

Gregger

MuscleHead
Dec 16, 2012
1,583
375
My friends I'm asking for some help here...
This subject is all new to me, and as smart as I may think I am, on this I am a babe in the woods.

Some may know or at least be aware of my presence on TID and know of my story; but for those who do not and for the purpose of this thread I offer a brief background.
I'm 53, I have had blood pressure issues since my early 30's. I am also a Type II and dealing with that since my early 40's. In Nov '09 I decided enough was enough and started lifting again after not touching a weight for 32yrs. My body responded very well and was able to drop the meds I was on for my Type II in Aug 2010!
NO SMALL FEAT at near 50, but def a testament to my lifting/diet regimen and my work ethic. I even competed in some NANBF shows in 2011.
2012 was a good year but I found myself losing my mojo, bellyfat was returning no matter how hard I worked or the diet (carbs/sugars) tweaks.
I knew something was wrong but my Doc at that time attributed these things to various life events, etc and just do more cardio... I have labs done every 10-12 weeks (liver, A1C, etc...) and occasionally I'd ask to add test to the mix... any guesses on what I was told?
Earlier this year in Jan, I decided I'd had enough pounding away in the gym and switched to track & field (short sprints) thinking the change in goals and subsequent training routines would fix my prob... At the same time, I started to read what I could find on T levels for older Type 2 males; seemed a no brainer that by starting TRT a guy could add some lean muscle and control his A1C, insulin sensitivity, etc... I mean, hadn't I already proved that? So, I started a program about 10wks ago knowing that I would need to stay on top of my BP issues... I hope that was a brief enough story!

Initial labs put my total at 212...
My free % was 1.9
Sorry, I can't recall the other result scores, I basically got confirmation of how I had been feeling...

Started on 100/wk... BP spiked for whatever reason and skipped a week to re-evaluate my meds... adjusted doses and back on track...
next labs... total now at 525 and free % 8.1, so progress, but... binding was a concern... added Danazol 60mg troche.
next labs just this past Friday; total dropped to 440 and e2 was higher than previous, I didn't write it down but my recollection was close to 90...

new plan; upping test to 125, adding hcg, dropping the danazol and adding Anastrazole...
I picked it up today...

Finally to my question: dose = 1mg/day for 15 days then 1mg per week
keeping in mind I'm diabetic...
I am asking for your feedback on this. seems high but I'm new remember?
What number should I be shooting for in general, under 30?

Thanks in advance; I trust/respect my bro's here at TID...

Greg
 
Bullmuscle7

Bullmuscle7

MuscleHead
Jun 11, 2014
8,847
2,439
Hi Gregger,

I'm no doc just a grunt from the gym. I think you have to trust them but here's my thoughts:

I'm not sure why they would want you to take 1mg of adex a day for 15 days. I can see taking 1mg a week based upon the relatively low dose of test they are administering. But 1 mg a day is going to wipe out your estrogen. Maybe they want that but I don't know why. I would ask the doc that question.

Your e2 was high for someone with low t or on trt. Its usually good for it to be around 50 or 60. Mine was just tested at 144 and I went crazy but my doc said calm down because my test and free test levels are astronomically high. E2 too low kills sex drive and other important things as does E2 that's too high.

I would say again:

Call the doc office and say why 1 mg a day of adex for 15 days? Wont that wipe out my estrogen? See what they say.

Your situation is different and more complicated because of your diabetes..

Good luck. Your run on TRT will be great!
 
Gregger

Gregger

MuscleHead
Dec 16, 2012
1,583
375
Thanks man, I see them tomorrow and I'll ask.

From the limited info I've dug up on the interwebs, an older type 2 male should keep the number in the 24-30 range as high levels can contribute to hardening of the arterial walls, cardiac issues, etc...

Taking it slow, watching my BP like a hawk as well...

You're the man!
 
Bullmuscle7

Bullmuscle7

MuscleHead
Jun 11, 2014
8,847
2,439
Thanks man, I see them tomorrow and I'll ask.

From the limited info I've dug up on the interwebs, an older type 2 male should keep the number in the 24-30 range as high levels can contribute to hardening of the arterial walls, cardiac issues, etc...

Taking it slow, watching my BP like a hawk as well...

You're the man!

That's wise. Who but a doctor can know all the ins and outs of your care? I'm sure they have a reason for their script but its good to question things and hear why to some things.
 
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
u98uy9hoihohohpoihjopijp

My friends I'm asking for some help here...
This subject is all new to me, and as smart as I may think I am, on this I am a babe in the woods.

Some may know or at least be aware of my presence on TID and know of my story; but for those who do not and for the purpose of this thread I offer a brief background.
I'm 53, I have had blood pressure issues since my early 30's. I am also a Type II and dealing with that since my early 40's. In Nov '09 I decided enough was enough and started lifting again after not touching a weight for 32yrs. My body responded very well and was able to drop the meds I was on for my Type II in Aug 2010!
NO SMALL FEAT at near 50, but def a testament to my lifting/diet regimen and my work ethic. I even competed in some NANBF shows in 2011.
2012 was a good year but I found myself losing my mojo, bellyfat was returning no matter how hard I worked or the diet (carbs/sugars) tweaks.
I knew something was wrong but my Doc at that time attributed these things to various life events, etc and just do more cardio... I have labs done every 10-12 weeks (liver, A1C, etc...) and occasionally I'd ask to add test to the mix... any guesses on what I was told?
Earlier this year in Jan, I decided I'd had enough pounding away in the gym and switched to track & field (short sprints) thinking the change in goals and subsequent training routines would fix my prob... At the same time, I started to read what I could find on T levels for older Type 2 males; seemed a no brainer that by starting TRT a guy could add some lean muscle and control his A1C, insulin sensitivity, etc...

I mean, hadn't I already proved that?


Yes u have and that's exactly what TRT studies have revealed! You don't get off that fanny the lipids and BS in diabetics WORSEN when placed on TRT. But if that couch is no longer your best friend the BS and Lipids improve in the majority of folk. So strong work keep it up mate.

1) The current standard is to KNOW what your baseline TT,E-2,LH and FSH are before starting TRT MATE
Starting dose FOR TRT! it varies between 1-4 mg/kg/week. I begin most folk your age at 2mg/kg/week. (do not exceed a peak TT level of greater than 600mg/dl since it will likely increase complications)

2) Unless your symptomatic AIs, SERMs are not needed

3) HCG may be used to maintain sterility, testicular volume or the endogenous secretion of TT, yet the primary indication is to maintain fertility.

Regs
jim



So, I started a program about 10wks ago knowing that I would need to stay on top of my BP issues... I hope that was a brief enough story!

Initial labs put my total at 212...
My free % was 1.9
Sorry, I can't recall the other result scores, I basically got confirmation of how I had been feeling...

Started on 100/wk... BP spiked for whatever reason and skipped a week to re-evaluate my meds... adjusted doses and back on track...
next labs... total now at 525 and free % 8.1, so progress, but... binding was a concern... added Danazol 60mg troche.
next labs just this past Friday; total dropped to 440 and e2 was higher than previous, I didn't write it down but my recollection was close to 90...

new plan; upping test to 125, adding hcg, dropping the danazol and adding Anastrazole...
I picked it up today...

Finally to my question: dose = 1mg/day for 15 days then 1mg per week
keeping in mind I'm diabetic...
I am asking for your feedback on this. seems high but I'm new remember?
What number should I be shooting for in general, under 30?

Thanks in advance; I trust/respect my bro's here at TID...

Greg
 
IronSoul

IronSoul

TID Board Of Directors
Apr 2, 2013
6,274
2,007
Hey G, I'm definitely no expert in these areas but will be following this for sure and offering any help I can on subjects that I'm able to. Best of luck brother. Looking forward to seeing how the TRT works for ya.
 
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
Not sure I'm following Jim...

While it may not appear that way I'm being supportive of your lifestyle change.
The answers to your questions, I think, are bold typed and underlined.

Take a gander again and let me know if it makes sense. Sorry about the confusion.
Regs
Jim
 
Gregger

Gregger

MuscleHead
Dec 16, 2012
1,583
375
While it may not appear that way I'm being supportive of your lifestyle change.
The answers to your questions, I think, are bold typed and underlined.

Take a gander again and let me know if it makes sense. Sorry about the confusion.
Regs
Jim

Jim, I hadn't seen the embedded answers previously, hence my confusion... Thank you for the input, if I have any Q's I'll certainly forward them.

Greg
 
Gregger

Gregger

MuscleHead
Dec 16, 2012
1,583
375
Hey G, I'm definitely no expert in these areas but will be following this for sure and offering any help I can on subjects that I'm able to. Best of luck brother. Looking forward to seeing how the TRT works for ya.

Thanks my friend!
Already seeing some changes, increased lbs without buying bigger pants...
And my general mood has lightened, the wife has even noticed i'm getting back to being me again.
I am getting this elbow sorted and should be hitting it hard in the gym very soon.
 
IronSoul

IronSoul

TID Board Of Directors
Apr 2, 2013
6,274
2,007
Thanks my friend!
Already seeing some changes, increased lbs without buying bigger pants...
And my general mood has lightened, the wife has even noticed i'm getting back to being me again.
I am getting this elbow sorted and should be hitting it hard in the gym very soon.

Hell yeah gregger! Glad to hear the good news already bro. I'm sure your wife and family will notice just as many if not more changes than you
 
Gregger

Gregger

MuscleHead
Dec 16, 2012
1,583
375
Yes u have and that's exactly what TRT studies have revealed! You don't get off that fanny the lipids and BS in diabetics WORSEN when placed on TRT. But if that couch is no longer your best friend the BS and Lipids improve in the majority of folk. So strong work keep it up mate.

I've been very lucky to have some top notch Internists as a part of my "team"... gave me leave to bust my butt and allow me to be off the DM meds.
Keeping in mind many of their patients are like my Dad was, crotchety, stubborn and didn't listen or manage well, he paid the price for that...
I choose not to go out like that, I choose to be the poster boy... lol

thx Jim
 
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