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Tren and Prostate issues.

Lizard King

Lizard King

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I just bought extra thick gloves for the meat on the smoker, need me ti check your prostate for you?
 
Type-IIx

Type-IIx

Member
Mar 24, 2022
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Prostate effects of Trenbolone
Author: Type-IIx

Hershberger Assay (HA) Results: In DHT-forming tissues, with 5α-reductase, such as seminal vesicle and VP [prostate], Trenbolone effects were much less affected compared to the effects of a similar dose of Testosterone Propionate (only showing statistically significant increases at 200 μg Trenbolone/day) while the levator ani [proxy for skeletal muscle anabolism], which exhibits a testosterone (T)-dependent response lacking this enzyme, is significantly increased in size at 50 μg TB/day with a dose-response curve nearly identical to subcutaneous Testosterone Propionate (Fig. 4). Hence Trenbolone, as compared to Testosterone, differentially induced “anabolic” effects on androgen-dependent muscles, with lower “androgenic” potency on the sex accessory glands. This tissues elective response is likely based upon the ability of 5α-reductase to inactivate Trenbolone, while in contrast, Testosterone is converted by the same enzyme to DHT, a more potent androgen. In the LABC [levator ani], Trenbolone was equipotent with Testosterone Propionate, while in the VP [prostate], SV [seminal vesicles], and GP [glans penis], even 200 μg/day Trenbolone fails to stimulate tissue growth to the same degree as 25 μg Testosterone/day.
[1]

In rats, Tren has approx. 1/10 - 1/4 the potential to cause BPH as testosterone on a per-dose basis [1]

Tren-vs-Test-HA-Table.TID.png


Tren-vs-Test-HA-Graph.TID.png


Dotted lines: Tren Ace
Solid line: Test Prop

Looking at humans rather than rats (again considering the weaknesses of the HA), the assumption that Tren (or AAS generally) causes BPH is far more equivocal, and there is evidence for the opposite (that Tren may attenuate prostate growth [2]; that its metabolite 17α-TBOH may shrink the prostate [1 citing WHO]). Consider that in practice the dosage of Tren used is less than test typically-- given what we know about Test's 5α-reduction and ubiquitious presence in AAS polypharmacy, it is probably safe to say that Tren is not responsible for any significant occurrence of BPH versus high dose test.

The association between Testosterone and prostate cancer is related to low ( low hypogonadal!) T ranges versus zero T (castrate level), and an effective ceiling is reached in this risk in that hypogonadal range [3]. This squares with Bhasin, et al [4]'s 5α-reductase inhibitor (Dutasteride) + Test study where T supplanted the role of DHT in prostate function. Rather than demonstrating that Testosterone (and AAS generally) can both exert androgenic effects in all androgen-sensitive tissues, and that their relative effects in any tissue depend upon their relative concentrations and potency, this data rather supports a model wherein Testosterone's conversion to DHT is not obligatory, but amplifies the effects of Testosterone in tissues with high 5α-reductase activity such as the prostate and skin, but not in tissues with low 5α-reductase activity such as skeletal muscle and bone [4]. The pertinent findings from Bhasin et al. were:
Prostate Volumes and PSA level
Change in prostate volume and PSA level were not significantly related to either testosterone dose or concentration, and did not differ significantly between the placebo and dutasteride groups. See Figure:
Test-prostate-volume-Plot.TID.png

[4]

Conclusion: There is no evidence to suggest that even long-term, supraphysiological dosages of AAS cause BPH in humans!

__________
References:
[1] Vickie S. Wilson, Christy Lambright, Joe Ostby, L. E. Gray, Jr., In Vitro and in Vivo Effects of 17β-Trenbolone: A Feedlot Effluent Contaminant, Toxicological Sciences, Volume 70, Issue 2, December 2002, Pages 202–211, https://doi.org/~
/70.2.202
[2] Nieschlag, E., & Vorona, E. (2015). MECHANISMS IN ENDOCRINOLOGY: Medical consequences of doping with anabolic androgenic steroids: effects on reproductive functions. European Journal of Endocrinology, 173(2), R47–R58. doi:10.1530/eje-15-0080
[3] Morgentaler, A., & Traish, A. M. (2009). Shifting the Paradigm of Testosterone and Prostate Cancer: The Saturation Model and the Limits of Androgen-Dependent Growth. European Urology, 55(2), 310–321. doi:10.1016/j.eururo.2008.09.024
[4] Bhasin S, Travison TG, Storer TW, Lakshman K, Kaushik M, Mazer NA, Ngyuen AH, Davda MN, Jara H, Aakil A, Anderson S, Knapp PE, Hanka S, Mohammed N, Daou P, Miciek R, Ulloor J, Z
hang A, Brooks B, Orwoll K, Hede-Brierley L, Eder R, Elmi A, Bhasin G, Collins L, Singh R, Basaria S. Effect of testosterone supplementation with and without a dual 5α-reductase inhibitor on fat-free mass in men with suppressed testosterone production: a randomized controlled trial. JAMA. 2012 Mar 7;307(9):931-9. doi: 10.1001/jama.2012.227. PMID: 22396515; PMCID: PMC6035750.
 
Type-IIx

Type-IIx

Member
Mar 24, 2022
65
43
Two weeks just isn't enough time to blow the prostate up with anything, at least enough to cause flow issues, no lit to support it. My guess with a lot of the androgen related, rapid response is more a CNS or PNS issue that leads to pelvic floor dysfunction. Try flomax and see if that helps with flow, it is an alpha blocker specific to the prostate. It will lead to retrograde ejaculation though.
Pure supposition. I've posited that metenolone and boldenone may cause sexual dysfunction by a megalin-mediated endocytosis of SHBG-androgen complexes into Sertoli cells, but at least there we have data to support this very sort of nongenomic action. Here, I've never seen data to suggest any neural effect on pelvic floor musculature (but it certainly is scintillating and provocative). I'd say it's more likely we're a bunch of head cases and as human beings we tend to misattribute cause/effect. Take for example OP not mentioning in the initial post that he was shot in the groin.
 
Littleguy

Littleguy

TID Board Of Directors
Sep 30, 2011
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Pure supposition. I've posited that metenolone and boldenone may cause sexual dysfunction by a megalin-mediated endocytosis of SHBG-androgen complexes into Sertoli cells, but at least there we have data to support this very sort of nongenomic action. Here, I've never seen data to suggest any neural effect on pelvic floor musculature (but it certainly is scintillating and provocative). I'd say it's more likely we're a bunch of head cases and as human beings we tend to misattribute cause/effect. Take for example OP not mentioning in the initial post that he was shot in the groin.
I left out the gunshot wound as when I take the Tren is when the problem is exacerbated, I KNOW this to be true as I have experienced it multiple times before as others have.
This is where we run into problems, the "science" doesn't support the facts and then people want to start throwing the words "bro science" around even though it seems on many occasions to be the more accurate of the two.
I thought there may be some answers and thus far TB a "Bro Scientist" is the one that has made an actual suggestion as to what may help.
I respect knowledge and I enjoy educating myself, however I am looking for real World solutions by those that have had or are experiencing these issues.
What are YOU suggesting as a solution to this, or are you simply cutting and pasting scientific studies?
I believe you may know something hence I am sincerely hoping that you can look beyond the study saying that it cannot be so.
Cheers
 
R

rawdeal

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 29, 2013
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I left out the gunshot wound as when I take the Tren is when the problem is exacerbated, I KNOW this to be true as I have experienced it multiple times before as others have.
This is where we run into problems, the "science" doesn't support the facts and then people want to start throwing the words "bro science" around even though it seems on many occasions to be the more accurate of the two.
I thought there may be some answers and thus far TB a "Bro Scientist" is the one that has made an actual suggestion as to what may help.
I respect knowledge and I enjoy educating myself, however I am looking for real World solutions by those that have had or are experiencing these issues.
What are YOU suggesting as a solution to this, or are you simply cutting and pasting scientific studies?
I believe you may know something hence I am sincerely hoping that you can look beyond the study saying that it cannot be so.
Cheers
TID may be the best board where one can find bro science from very experienced bro's and blend it with real science from science bro's to arrive at the solutions one seeks.

Going forward, the trick, I guess, is clear communication that resonates for all bro's?
 
Last edited:
Littleguy

Littleguy

TID Board Of Directors
Sep 30, 2011
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I think bro's and Ho's need to be heard equally.........lol
TID may be the best board where one can find bro science from very experienced bro's and blend it with real science from science bro's to arrive at the solutions one seeks.

Going forward, the trick, I guess, is clear communication that resonates for all bro's?
 
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Type-IIx

Type-IIx

Member
Mar 24, 2022
65
43
I left out the gunshot wound as when I take the Tren is when the problem is exacerbated, I KNOW this to be true as I have experienced it multiple times before as others have.
This is where we run into problems, the "science" doesn't support the facts and then people want to start throwing the words "bro science" around even though it seems on many occasions to be the more accurate of the two.
I thought there may be some answers and thus far TB a "Bro Scientist" is the one that has made an actual suggestion as to what may help.
I respect knowledge and I enjoy educating myself, however I am looking for real World solutions by those that have had or are experiencing these issues.
What are YOU suggesting as a solution to this, or are you simply cutting and pasting scientific studies?
I believe you may know something hence I am sincerely hoping that you can look beyond the study saying that it cannot be so.
Cheers
It's just another perspective brother. My recommendation is an AI like Aromasin (as it prevents excessive aromatization to E2 by T, the effects [of the E2] of which increase PR expression and secondary hypogonadism). But if you don't consider this a valid perspective because I personally experience greatly augmented sexual function by tren and do not share this anecdotal experience, then that's OK too.
 
Littleguy

Littleguy

TID Board Of Directors
Sep 30, 2011
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It's just another perspective brother. My recommendation is an AI like Aromasin (as it prevents excessive aromatization to E2 by T, the effects [of the E2] of which increase PR expression and secondary hypogonadism). But if you don't consider this a valid perspective because I personally experience greatly augmented sexual function by tren and do not share this anecdotal experience, then that's OK too.
The Tren DOES of clurse cause more sexual desire but also causes it to be more difficult to "get off" if I wasn't clear enough about that.
I appreciate the input.
 
Type-IIx

Type-IIx

Member
Mar 24, 2022
65
43
The Tren DOES of clurse cause more sexual desire but also causes it to be more difficult to "get off" if I wasn't clear enough about that.
I appreciate the input.
I hear ya, sexual function encompasses ejaculation, etc.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
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1,145
@Littleguy,
The P5P can (and does for many, myself included) improve the sides you describe with tren/e — regardless of the “science” / studies and how they’ve been done. Caber can as well but I avoid it because personally I have sensitivities to it — I get nausea and just don’t feel good.
It’s worth the Bro-science real world experiment with P5P (200-400mg daily range while running tren) though because it’s inexpensive, accessible and broadly effective regardless of any technically complicated “science.”
I could care less how or why it works, it simply helps mitigate both tren and deca sides for a significant percentage.
I look for reasonable 100mg dose on Amazon.
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
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665
TID may be the best board where one can find bro science from very experienced bro's and blend it with real science from science bro's to arrive at the solutions one seeks.

Going forward, the trick, I guess, is clear communication that resonates for all bro's?

Well, said AND accurate!!!...

..
 
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