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Transgender Athletes

BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
1,520
384
Exactly! Let me give you this aspect from a football coach's view. According to Title 9, if you don't have a "girls" football team girls must be allowed to play on a body team. You have separate dressing rooms as a male coach you have to open the girls locker room to the girl can get dressed out. Of course there is no locker room supervision and any thing can happen and guess who will lose a job. You go to a football game and they give you either a visitors or home locker room. Where do the girls get dressed? Male athletes do not want to hit a girls because we preach to the constantly you don't hit girls. Is that fair now? I remember the 9th grade heavy set girl who's parents demanded she be give her rights. OK she was put on 2nd stream D line and had to be given a chance to play. What else is a chubby girls going to play, wide receiver? Well 1st play she blows out both knees and is in surgery the next morning unable to play again. That's Texas big school football. How does a coach turn them down, keep them off the play field or from getting hurt just as bad in practice? How do you cut them or get them out of athletics without a discriminations law suit? Their parents sure won't listen to common sense. How do you teach your guys to properly block a girl when we teach grabbing the outside of the chest plate on the should pads where you will surely make contact with the breast? Guys this too is a lose, lose situation. Big part of why I retired.

We also didn't have a girls volleyball team and I use to encourage the guys to demand they be able to play as a part of Title 9. Never got 1 guy to do this. Imagine that?
What a messed up world we live in!...
.
 
The Phoenix

The Phoenix

VIP Member
Jul 29, 2014
590
342
Short re-cap...If a man matures before he/she transitions into a shim, then the person still retains the advantage of a man...Ex. Fast-twitch muscles fibers, etc....Is this close!...Thanx for that article...I will read later...Abstract was enough tho...
.
DUDE! You are like scary smart. ;)
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
1,520
384
DUDE! You are like scary smart. ;)
*LOL*...Not according to LK!....Really tho, I give that comment a big, fat, wish!...If I were, I wouldn't have to ask so many questions on an BB board!....I really like this board TP due to ALL the intellegent people on hear...I enjoy everyone's post on interesting subject matter!...I've actually learned more on here, than I did in ALL of my schooling days, no kidding!...I just wish I could function like I use too....The pain is slowly, but surely breaking me down, my friend!...Anyways, I'll dream on your comment, *LOL*...:)
.
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
587
891
This is directly from a PowerPoint is use on gender differences I use in class:

Body Composition

* Both genders increased FFM and lowered body fat % at the same rate in a short term resistance training program (8-20 weeks).
* Males generally have higher FFM than females

Muscle Hypertrophy
DEFINITION: An increase in muscle mass and cross sectional area.
* Average male has greater muscle cross sectional area and more muscle fibers.
* The average women’s muscles do not hypertrophy excessively. Steroids can change this
* Encouraging and discouraging for women
After a 10, 12, and 20 week study results showed no change or small changes in body circumferences in women through strength training
* Because muscle tissue is denser than adipose tissue, an increase in muscle mass accompanied by an decrease in adipose tissue equaling the gain in muscle mass will result in a slight decrease in body circumference

Strength and Power
* Avg. woman’s maximal mean total body strength is 60% of the avg. man’s
* Avg. Upper body strength is 25-55% of man’s
* Lower body strength is 70-75% of man’s
* Muscle’s rate of force development is slower for the avg. woman than for the avg. man.
* Thus training for explosive strength is vital in order to enhance Rare of Force Development and improve power performances.
* Avg. woman’s maximal mean total body strength is 60% of the avg. man’s
* Avg. Upper body strength is 25-55% of man’s
* Lower body strength is 70-75% of man’s
* Muscle’s rate of force development is slower for the avg. woman than for the avg. man.
* Thus training for explosive strength is vital in order to enhance RFD and improve power performances.

More gender differences
* Males muscle fibers from greatest area to smallest are Type IIA-I-IIB
* Women are I-IIA-IIB
* Explains strength and power output differences
* Women plateau earlier in training but see greater initial strength gains.

What this tells us
* Women are at a disadvantage physiologically than men when it comes to strength and power.
* In order to reap the benefits of RT a woman has to activate her muscle tissue by lifting heavy weights (<60% 1RM).

Does this mean women can't be great athletes? Absolutely not. Take a look at Powerlifter Becca Swanson:
198+ weight class (actual 230lbs)
Squat - 854lbs
Bench Press - 600lbs
Deadlift - 693lbs
Total - 2050lbs

My best total for instance.....2275. 950 squat, 525 bench and 800 deadlift. I know Becca and she is 100% woman and proud of it. One of the nicest people you will meet. She does not want to or pretend to be a man but sure can out lift most.

 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
1,520
384
This is directly from a PowerPoint is use on gender differences I use in class:

Body Composition
* Both genders increased FFM and lowered body fat % at the same rate in a short term resistance training program (8-20 weeks).
* Males generally have higher FFM than females

Muscle Hypertrophy
DEFINITION: An increase in muscle mass and cross sectional area.
* Average male has greater muscle cross sectional area and more muscle fibers.
* The average women’s muscles do not hypertrophy excessively. Steroids can change this
* Encouraging and discouraging for women
After a 10, 12, and 20 week study results showed no change or small changes in body circumferences in women through strength training
* Because muscle tissue is denser than adipose tissue, an increase in muscle mass accompanied by an decrease in adipose tissue equaling the gain in muscle mass will result in a slight decrease in body circumference

Strength and Power
* Avg. woman’s maximal mean total body strength is 60% of the avg. man’s
* Avg. Upper body strength is 25-55% of man’s
* Lower body strength is 70-75% of man’s
* Muscle’s rate of force development is slower for the avg. woman than for the avg. man.
* Thus training for explosive strength is vital in order to enhance Rare of Force Development and improve power performances.
* Avg. woman’s maximal mean total body strength is 60% of the avg. man’s
* Avg. Upper body strength is 25-55% of man’s
* Lower body strength is 70-75% of man’s
* Muscle’s rate of force development is slower for the avg. woman than for the avg. man.
* Thus training for explosive strength is vital in order to enhance RFD and improve power performances.

More gender differences
* Males muscle fibers from greatest area to smallest are Type IIA-I-IIB
* Women are I-IIA-IIB
* Explains strength and power output differences
* Women plateau earlier in training but see greater initial strength gains.

What this tells us
* Women are at a disadvantage physiologically than men when it comes to strength and power.
* In order to reap the benefits of RT a woman has to activate her muscle tissue by lifting heavy weights (<60% 1RM).

Does this mean women can't be great athletes? Absolutely not. Take a look at Powerlifter Becca Swanson:
198+ weight class (actual 230lbs)
Squat - 854lbs
Bench Press - 600lbs
Deadlift - 693lbs
Total - 2050lbs

My best total for instance.....2275. 950 squat, 525 bench and 800 deadlift. I know Becca and she is 100% woman and proud of it. One of the nicest people you will meet. She does not want to or pretend to be a man but sure can out lift most.

Gosh Almighty!.....What a power house!...:eek:I squatted 700lb in hs and it almost killed me!...I did pench a nerve in my back tho...And, I was in midstream with that 2nd cycle...She reminds me of one of my cousins (Big Betty)...She never lifted, but was built solid!...She came in at 6'2" around 230-240 when she finished growing...Eyewitnessed her whip two grown men like rag dolls, one of whom was her husband!...

Tex, do u remember Bev Frances?...I believe she was an power lifter in the 80's...I think she took the bench press title back then...
.
 
SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,338
1,669
Does this mean women can't be great athletes? Absolutely not. Take a look at Powerlifter Becca Swanson:
198+ weight class (actual 230lbs)
Squat - 854lbs
Bench Press - 600lbs
Deadlift - 693lbs
Total - 2050lbs

Do you use a heavily hormone-enhanced multiply powerlifters as your example for a female athlete in your college class as well? Or was that just for us?

Do you see the irony in using her as example of what a FEMALE athlete can achieve? She clearly wasn’t happy with what she could achieve with her female hormones and her female limitations on muscle growth and strength output, so she loaded up on male hormones in order to perform closer to the levels of a man.

I don’t knock her for it. It’s a personal choice. But she’s not a great example for common women to follow, when it comes to promoting female athleticism.
 
midevil

midevil

TID Board Of Directors
Jan 20, 2011
1,089
503
we can make this very simple and EQUAL for all.

Just eliminate men / boys ~ girls / female sports altogether and have Co-Ed sports.

Isn't that the fairest way to eliminate gender?

Then what'll happen is females will not make the teams based on superior male competition in all positions of all teams.

Then what?

Fucking idiots....
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
587
891
Do you use a heavily hormone-enhanced multiply powerlifters as your example for a female athlete in your college class as well? Or was that just for us?

Do you see the irony in using her as example of what a FEMALE athlete can achieve? She clearly wasn’t happy with what she could achieve with her female hormones and her female limitations on muscle growth and strength output, so she loaded up on male hormones in order to perform closer to the levels of a man.

I don’t knock her for it. It’s a personal choice. But she’s not a great example for common women to follow, when it comes to promoting female athleticism.

It was basically for us but I do use her as example of how far women can take things if the want. I also point out the consequences for using steroids as a female. However SAD, I have have been around athletes most of my life and in powerlifting for 27 years. One thing I have done is accused any athlete of using. Students always ask does she use? I have no idea, never asked her a question like, just not my business. People use to always ask me if Anthony Clark (my own training partner) used....I never saw him use anything, never heard ihm say he used. So he is drug free as far as i am concerned. Same with Tiny Meeker, he claims he is drug free and I personally witnessed him take a USAPL/IPF urine test and pass. Is he really drug free? He claims he is.

The point here is Becca is a biological woman competing as a woman in women's events that were UNTESTED. The playing field is level because anyone there can use what they want. It not like a man pretending to be a woman and competing against women. Or a woman pretending to be a man taking steroids competing against women in drug tested events, This makes the playing field totally unfair. It like being able to use a top fuel dragster in a race against bicycle, just because the guy with the dragsters thinks he has a bicycle. Yes, I say this again, women have the capability to be very good athletes, but they are not men, even enhanced. Just because woman chose to be enhanced, doesn't mean they want to be men. Lots of the public can't understand that.

I actually use Becca to show how some of the genetic difference that give woman a disadvantage can be enhanced but they are still women competing as women. You just can't use drug to change your gender. Lots of biology can't be changed like Q angle and RFD. If Becca used a boat load of anabolic steroids as she could and she went up against say Ed Coan in the same 220 untested weight class, she would never bet him. But then the playing field is not level because Becca is still a female competing against a male, enhanced or not enhanced. Women can take all sorts of things and be a very good athletes but will never be a man.. It is outrageous to consider that any sporting organization would allow a man that can't win in men's sports to compete in the Olympics as a woman and then win. There is a big difference in a man pretending to be a female (ie. Olympic lifter) and an enhanced female. One is a man and the other still biologically a female. There is no way to change fiber make up or rate of force development. Hypertrophy/str yes.

Ed Coan's best lifts at 220lbs:
  • Squat - 1019 lbs (~462 kg)
  • Bench - 584 lbs (~265 kg)
  • Deadlift - 901 lbs (~409 kg)[
  • Total: 2463.6 lbs (1117.5 kg
Here is another example of women I used to show while they are enhanced they are still biological woman, competing against biological woman and proud to be a woman. This is a friend of my wife's from Argentina. They use to compete against each other.....Maria Calo. Maria is very happy being a woman, she also has developed a massive physique. But there are consequence for being enhanced. But the bottom line she has never pretended to be a man and has always competed as an enhanced female against others that have the same opportunity. My wife beat Maria in the Nationals and went pro and quit competing because she was not willing as a female to take it to the next level. Its a personal choice but these are still women. Imagine letting Ronnie Coleman compete as a female?

DSC_5543[1].jpg
 
W

Wilson6

VIP Member
Dec 17, 2019
92
128
I didn't get through everyone's post and it was probably mentioned already. The only fair way to do this is to have trans compete with trans, period. No trans female should be competing against cis women. You can cut off his dick and balls and give him implants, still has an advantage and this has been born out in studies. To even consider something like this is as stupid as it gets. The East Germans showed decades ago that you could juice a female and with proper training, maintain an advantage for a very long time, perhaps forever after stopping the drugs. Long after even sensitive testing today could detect PED use. Going the other way, a year of low T isn't going to cut it relative to fairness and moreover, you have to figure even within a trans category, how do you manage what is normal for replacement and how/when do you test for it since it is not endogenously produced. Think about how fucked up this is. Trans women compete against normal women, that's OK. You're a female that has gender dysphoria, you happen to like a more muscular body, less female fat distribution, bigger clit, more angular jaw, deeper voice, BUT you don't want to be a full blow trans, just a more androgynous female because that is what you identify with. A doctor can prescribe T for you because it falls under gender dysphoria, be who you want to be. If you're skinny guy that wants to add 20 lbs of muscle and has shit genetics, well you have muscle dysmorphia and that requires big pharma psych drugs and therapy. If a doctor were to prescribe controlled doses of T/N or OX to add some lean, safely and under medical supervision, that is a felony, doc loses his license and faces criminal prosecution, and simple possession of just 2 vials of TC from a UG source in some states is a felony, and why? It doesn't get much more fucked up than that.
 
The Phoenix

The Phoenix

VIP Member
Jul 29, 2014
590
342
It was basically for us but I do use her as example of how far women can take things if the want. I also point out the consequences for using steroids as a female. However SAD, I have have been around athletes most of my life and in powerlifting for 27 years. One thing I have done is accused any athlete of using. Students always ask does she use? I have no idea, never asked her a question like, just not my business. People use to always ask me if Anthony Clark (my own training partner) used....I never saw him use anything, never heard ihm say he used. So he is drug free as far as i am concerned. Same with Tiny Meeker, he claims he is drug free and I personally witnessed him take a USAPL/IPF urine test and pass. Is he really drug free? He claims he is.

The point here is Becca is a biological woman competing as a woman in women's events that were UNTESTED. The playing field is level because anyone there can use what they want. It not like a man pretending to be a woman and competing against women. Or a woman pretending to be a man taking steroids competing against women in drug tested events, This makes the playing field totally unfair. It like being able to use a top fuel dragster in a race against bicycle, just because the guy with the dragsters thinks he has a bicycle. Yes, I say this again, women have the capability to be very good athletes, but they are not men, even enhanced. Just because woman chose to be enhanced, doesn't mean they want to be men. Lots of the public can't understand that.

I actually use Becca to show how some of the genetic difference that give woman a disadvantage can be enhanced but they are still women competing as women. You just can't use drug to change your gender. Lots of biology can't be changed like Q angle and RFD. If Becca used a boat load of anabolic steroids as she could and she went up against say Ed Coan in the same 220 untested weight class, she would never bet him. But then the playing field is not level because Becca is still a female competing against a male, enhanced or not enhanced. Women can take all sorts of things and be a very good athletes but will never be a man.. It is outrageous to consider that any sporting organization would allow a man that can't win in men's sports to compete in the Olympics as a woman and then win. There is a big difference in a man pretending to be a female (ie. Olympic lifter) and an enhanced female. One is a man and the other still biologically a female. There is no way to change fiber make up or rate of force development. Hypertrophy/str yes.

Ed Coan's best lifts at 220lbs:
  • Squat - 1019 lbs (~462 kg)
  • Bench - 584 lbs (~265 kg)
  • Deadlift - 901 lbs (~409 kg)[
  • Total: 2463.6 lbs (1117.5 kg
Here is another example of women I used to show while they are enhanced they are still biological woman, competing against biological woman and proud to be a woman. This is a friend of my wife's from Argentina. They use to compete against each other.....Maria Calo. Maria is very happy being a woman, she also has developed a massive physique. But there are consequence for being enhanced. But the bottom line she has never pretended to be a man and has always competed as an enhanced female against others that have the same opportunity. My wife beat Maria in the Nationals and went pro and quit competing because she was not willing as a female to take it to the next level. Its a personal choice but these are still women. Imagine letting Ronnie Coleman compete as a female?

View attachment 11104
Whoa ! Ne’er seems this dude, Juan Carlos López (2007) before. This man is yoked! LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
587
891
Whoa ! Ne’er seems this dude, Juan Carlos López (2007) before. This man is yoked! LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have to admit my wife calls her as Pancho. Here is a picture of Maria in Argentina maybe 15 years earlier. Much softer look. I appreciate all the hard work and dedication these women put in their sport. They have definitely created a massive physique, its unfortunate the judges and IFBB ever let it go this far. Athletes have and always will do what ever they have to do to compete and win.

Maria Calo.JPG


How about this Olympic weight lifting champion? If you can beat men, just claim you are a woman.

 
Last edited:
The Phoenix

The Phoenix

VIP Member
Jul 29, 2014
590
342
I have to admit my wife calls her as Pancho. Here is a picture of Maria in Argentina maybe 15 years earlier. Much softer look. I appreciate all the hard work and dedication these women put in their sport. They have definitely created a massive physique, its unfortunate the judges and IFBB ever let it go this far. Athletes have and always will do what ever they have to do to compete and win.

View attachment 11107

How about this Olympic weight lifting champion? If you can beat men, just claim you are a woman.

I don't know about Pancho; Madea would call her Lou Ferriggan-no.
 
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