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Tiny Meeker First Man to Bench 1,100lbs in Multiply!

SAD

SAD

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One thing I don't agree with though is.... when you put on equipment you get an automatic increase in your ability to lift more. You have to be able to properly use the shirt, briefs, suit, etc to benefit from it. Not everyone's actually able to benefit from the equipment b/c they're not able to change their technique to accomodate the new equipment.

I don't know if everyone is exactly getting my point.... My point was and still is nothing more than they are both aids (equipment and PED's). The degree to which they aid the user may be different. The thing that always bothers me is that many drug very heavily and say that is ok while they turn their nose towards others who put on a shirt, briefs, or suit. What makes them better? Why is one ok, while the other isn't?

I would like to read that study you referred to if you find it.

BI, I'm not saying that the first day you put on gear you'll be able to touch or hit depth, but you will absolutely be able to feel the huge boost that it gives. Go back to POBs log and check out the first time he ever slipped on briefs. He had a blast and smashed some heavy weights that he wouldn't have touched without the briefs.

Same thing with me in a bench shirt, minus the blast part. I hated it, but I certainly felt strong as hell with 500 pounds in my hands. Came within an inch of touching too.

And MJR the first time he put a deadlift suit on and would've PRd if he hadn't lost his grip.

I think you'll agree that an experienced lifter, with some decent understanding of his/her own body, can experience significant strength increase in at least partial ranges of motion, the very first time they are ever in gear.





As to your second paragraph, I agree 1000% that you can't HATE on equipped lifting and then be ok with AAS use. But you can certainly admit that they are very different things without hating on either one. I was never trying to debate that equipped lifting is WRONG or bad or whatever, just that the analogy was badly disproportional. As I said initially, it SOUNDS good, but doesn't really work.



Found that study, by the way. http://www.velferdsetaten.oslo.komm...okumenter/avhandling anders eriksson umeå.pdf


EDIT: More stuff from Millard. I hope it's ok to post this here.
http://thinksteroids.com/news/anabolic-steroids-result-in-permanent-muscle-gains/232/
http://thinksteroids.com/news/anabolic-steroids-have-permanent-performance-enhancing-effects/488/
 
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SAD

SAD

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If you could see me on the other end of the computer, I'm clapping my hands right now. Very nice sir, I see your point.

I'm actually glad to know that when coming off a blast down to trt you can get your strength back.

I am gonna add a couple things.

1. If a multi ply bencher benches 350 Unequipped and 550 with the shirt, if he only uses the shirt for meet prep and does 1 meet a year. This means he trains Unequipped the rest of the year. There is a good chance that in a couple years, his raw bench will go from 350 close to 550. Of course, his equipped bench will probably jump to 750.

2. I can give a personal example of the reference above. For my first meet, in a single ply shirt I opened with x amount of weight. At the end of the year I was able to bench that weight raw for a single. Because I stayed out of the shirt and only used it sparingly. I think this is important for equipped lifters to train Unequipped and use their gear only in cycles.
It's easy to get hooked on using pl gear because of the increase in strength. But if you rely on it too much, your overall raw strength takes a dip.

3. Brother iron also had a really good point. The Feds will decide what is legal and what isn't.

4. I don't think the shirts and suits can get much tighter because depth on the squat won't be able to be reached. You won't be able to touch on bench. And you won't be able to get down to the bar on dead lifts.

Just my thoughts.


But that's you getting stronger because YOU are training raw. The gear isn't getting you stronger by helping you with the weight. It's indirectly helping by increasing your CNS capabilities as well as helping your tendons and ligaments adjust to the heavier weight, but you aren't getting any stronger (maybe the last 2 inches of lockout) with the gear taking so much weight out of the hole.

You are exactly right though and I've always said that these huge equipped guys are definitely strong as hell raw.

Then again, you have guys like Luyando who tell equipped benchers to absolutely live in the shirt.



Point number 4, you are correct that the tightness will limit lifters, but the materials will always be evolving. The next big thing will be fibers that activate when reversing stretch and contract while you are concentrically moving the weight. I'm not saying it's limitless, but we aren't done seeing the evolution of gear. That brings me back to the original point of this thread though, which is that we have reached the limits at which the body can help to lockout weight.
 
BrotherIron

BrotherIron

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I see your point and agree that you can definitely feel the difference when you put on equipment (whatever that equipment may be) even if you don't hit depth, touch your chest, or hold the pull at the top.

Thanks for posting that study.

We very well may have seen the limits to what the body can do on it's own without the aid of equipment but you never know. We have 1000lbs raw squatters out there now and I bet 30yrs ago that thought didn't even creep into anyone's head.
 
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porky little keg

porky little keg

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I'd be far more impressed with one honest rep to lockout with no shirt and 800 pounds. Hell, bench is my weakest lift but put one of those shirts on me so it takes 200 pounds to even bend my arms and I could half assed hold 300 pounds more than I can actually bench for a few seconds too.
Tiny is on Facebook. You should look him up and tell him that.

After all, geared lifters only compete that way to impress people they've never met who don't even compete.
Same to the guys chiming in that " all this gear makes geared lifting unappealing to the public".... never mind Mendy benching a harley in a shirt and nobody cared or asked questions. They just liked that he benched a harley.

It's like if I told Jay cutler that bodybuilding isn't a true test of physique any more because of the (drugs, tan, contest prep, whatever) I mean really, those guys don't look like that off season. It's not really them, right?
Same to the runners on a rubber track in specialized shoes. How fat are they really in a set of PF Flyers down a suburban street like normal guys?

Oh wait, those guys don't care what outsiders think..... People who have never even dipped their toe in the water.... BI has the right idea, so does POB, because those guys have at least seen it first hand. They understand what it is and what it does.

Like Louis Simmons said - " I have a bottle of test in a bench shirt in the corner of the gym and it hasn't benched shit yet"
 
hawkeye

hawkeye

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I have messed around with equipped lifting. Hell I had two of the better equipped benchers around in Bill Carpenter and Rob Luyando. And I will say that it's apples to oranges. I'm fairly strong real raw when healthy and have hit 600 raw a handful of times. I have hit over 500 too many times to count in competitions. I can say doing both is much different. First there is technique. I, too, figured I could walk in and just slap a shirt on and bench 800. Wrong. Your CNS and joints and body have to acclimate to the poundage and pressure. While I think equipped lifting has become suspect due to judging, I don't blame the lifter. Jus because you have a bench shirt, doesn't make you bench a house.
 
gunslinger

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Tiny is on Facebook. You should look him up and tell him that.

After all, geared lifters only compete that way to impress people they've never met who don't even compete.
Same to the guys chiming in that " all this gear makes geared lifting unappealing to the public".... never mind Mendy benching a harley in a shirt and nobody cared or asked questions. They just liked that he benched a harley.

It's like if I told Jay cutler that bodybuilding isn't a true test of physique any more because of the (drugs, tan, contest prep, whatever) I mean really, those guys don't look like that off season. It's not really them, right?
Same to the runners on a rubber track in specialized shoes. How fat are they really in a set of PF Flyers down a suburban street like normal guys?

Oh wait, those guys don't care what outsiders think..... People who have never even dipped their toe in the water.... BI has the right idea, so does POB, because those guys have at least seen it first hand. They understand what it is and what it does.

Like Louis Simmons said - " I have a bottle of test in a bench shirt in the corner of the gym and it hasn't benched shit yet"


I'd tell him to his face. I never said anything that was not true. If you will look through my posts, several times I give props and respect for what he does. But you and few others seem to want to completely ignore the HUGE advantage the equipment gives lifters. If you really want to compare PEDs to lifting equipment as a few others do, fine. Lets do that and compare natural body builders to ones who take what ever the hell they want and some in massive amounts. Do they not have a huge advantage not only in bodybuilding but in pretty much all sports? Well if you want to say that steroids are the same as equipment you have to concede the same level of advantage to the equipped lifter over RAW. Again the logic works against you.


At the end of the day, show me this guy benching 1,000 or even 950 pounds raw and I'll retract all statements and say the equipment gives little advantage. You can't because he can't. End of story.


Side note: As far as I know Eric Spoto still holds the raw record at 716 but I could be wrong. This is a long, long way from 1,100.
 
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gunslinger

gunslinger

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Spoto benched 722 raw.

I stand corrected by 6 pounds.


I'm guessing you agree with everything else said in my post? Also if Spoto can do 722 raw and Meeker can't, who is the stronger bench presser?
 
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SAD

SAD

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That question really is apples to oranges.

Spoto is a stronger raw bencher and couldn't touch what meeker is doing with a shirt (without year(s) of work)). Meeker is stronger in a shirt by far, but may have never even benched 600 in a raw comp (I don't know for a fact).

That question, while we've been agreeing, is the same as asking who the better grappler is, the world champion gi specialist or the world champion no-gi specialist. If one only trains one way, and the other only trains the other way, then you can't compare. But both would fvck up your average joe.
 
gunslinger

gunslinger

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That question really is apples to oranges.

Spoto is a stronger raw bencher and couldn't touch what meeker is doing with a shirt (without year(s) of work)). Meeker is stronger in a shirt by far, but may have never even benched 600 in a raw comp (I don't know for a fact).

That question, while we've been agreeing, is the same as asking who the better grappler is, the world champion gi specialist or the world champion no-gi specialist. If one only trains one way, and the other only trains the other way, then you can't compare. But both would fvck up your average joe.

This is true. I think the better question with the grapplers would be "who could win in street clothes on concrete"? After all thats what Jiu-jitsu was intended to be used for anyway. For the bench pressers to me its the same as the people who use straps when deadlifting. If you can't do it without special equipment, under special conditions, you can't do it. Maybe thats to simple minded and I understand its a sport. As with all sports there will always be rules pushed to their limits and beyond. I just think this takes away from the true spirit of weight lifting. I guess what offends me would be someone saying Meeker is stronger than Spoto on bench or something like that. If you are talking about measuring TRUE strength in my opinion you have to remove any external equipment that would give an advantage.

This is why in the UFC these days they don't allow shoes or a Gi. Even a shirt. If they still did it would simply turn into an equipment race and people learning new ways to choke people with their t-shirts and shoe laces. This would take away from the true spirit of the fight.
 
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porky little keg

porky little keg

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I'd tell him to his face. I never said anything that was not true. If you will look through my posts, several times I give props and respect for what he does. But you and few others seem to want to completely ignore the HUGE advantage the equipment gives lifters. If you really want to compare PEDs to lifting equipment as a few others do, fine. Lets do that and compare natural body builders to ones who take what ever the hell they want and some in massive amounts. Do they not have a huge advantage not only in bodybuilding but in pretty much all sports? Well if you want to say that steroids are the same as equipment you have to concede the same level of advantage to the equipped lifter over RAW. Again the logic works against you.


At the end of the day, show me this guy benching 1,000 or even 950 pounds raw and I'll retract all statements and say the equipment gives little advantage. You can't because he can't. End of story.


Side note: As far as I know Eric Spoto still holds the raw record at 716 but I could be wrong. This is a long, long way from 1,100.
Actually, right there, in your post is something not true. Not on purpose, but still not true.

The part where you said that equipment gives lifters an advantage over raw lifters...... the two don't compete. They are separate. If I wore my bench shirt in a raw meet that'd be an unfair advantage, but I don't.
Spoto has the biggest raw bench at 722, and Meeker has it with his shady looking 1102 in gear. The two are separate. That's the part that you're missing. Spoto is the best at what he does. Meeker is the best at what he does.

Of course you can lift more in a bench shirt if you take the time to learn it. That's never been in question. What is in question is why you're crying about comparing top lifters from two different divisions?

Also, please take video of you telling Meeker that his bench doesn't impress you. He's a nice guy, but I'll bet his reaction will be funny.
 
gunslinger

gunslinger

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Actually, right there, in your post is something not true. Not on purpose, but still not true.

The part where you said that equipment gives lifters an advantage over raw lifters...... the two don't compete. They are separate. If I wore my bench shirt in a raw meet that'd be an unfair advantage, but I don't.
Spoto has the biggest raw bench at 722, and Meeker has it with his shady looking 1102 in gear. The two are separate. That's the part that you're missing. Spoto is the best at what he does. Meeker is the best at what he does.

Of course you can lift more in a bench shirt if you take the time to learn it. That's never been in question. What is in question is why you're crying about comparing top lifters from two different divisions?

Also, please take video of you telling Meeker that his bench doesn't impress you. He's a nice guy, but I'll bet his reaction will be funny.

I never said they compete against each other. What I'm saying is that I respect the raw lifter more because he is lifting honest weight. The assisted lifter is not. I don't see how this is even a debate. I'm sure Meeker can out bench anyone on this forum RAW so thats not in question but I'd respect his lift more if he didn't have all the gear on artificially inflating his true bench by probably 300 pounds or more.
 
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