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The Myth Of "Keepable" Gains

guss

guss

MuscleHead
Aug 11, 2010
380
179
#1
Time for a reality check.

First off, newbies who ask how much of their gains they're going to keep should be directed to this post. There are too many variables to determine what you'll keep. And it isn't the dosages.

Some important points.

People say d-bol gains aren't keepable then they go and recommend test.

Wrong.

Gains from test are no more keepable than those from d-bol. Maybe less. The most solid gains are those created by nitrogen retention. (As is the case with natural training). This is what makes Primobolin so great. But the muscle growth with primo is slight and slow ( Much like with natural training, though certainly faster). This is how muscle growth occurs. But people want fast noticable gains. Test increases water retention and that gives the impression of greater growth, but it's an illusion. The strength increase is due to more androgen but once that leaves the body, all you have is whatever extra nitrogen retention was obtained form the anabolic nature of the test. In short , it won't be much.

1000 mgs of Primobolin a week will give as much, if not more KEEPABLE muscle growth than 1000 mgs of testosterone.

The testosterone will just seem more dramatic at the time.

The reason d-bol has a rep for not lasting is that it increases blood volume. That's what gives the coveted "d-bol pump." But of course, you lose that shortly after cessation. But again, it doesn't mean you didn't gain muscle if you trained right and ate right. You just lose that blood volume.

PCT is not a sure fire way of keeping gains. For the most part, PCT helps to avoid a backlash of estrogen and low T and the side effects associated with it. It's not a "cure-all."

Let's not forget the need for bioavailable "free' testosterone in the recovery stage. This is what's so great about PROVIRON. But Proviron is suppressive, so what you get back on one end you lose on the other. This is why naturally increasing free testoterone is the way to go. That means avenacosides A&B and Muara Puama.

One product has the highest precentages at the best price, but I'll leave that for you to figure out. Seriously, this is as important -- maybe more important, than supressing estrogen.

One of the reasons guys use creatine PC has nothing to do with maintaining gains. Creatine replaces the water retention lost from the drugs. It also increases strength. Not a bad idea, but it's more of a psychological ploy than a physical one.

This is why I'm so interested in coming up with stuff for bodybuilders who inderstand how the body works. Creatine with spray dried plasma does things that some B.S. whey concentrate drink can't. My newest VIGOR increases blood vlume (ala'd-bol). Instead of trying to be drugs, they do naturally what drugs do. It makes sense to add as much of a natural advantage to any drug regiment, because in the end it's the more natural gains that you keep. Why not have the two compliment each other?

So in short -- anabolics grow muscle. Androgens create the srength to lift harder, thus building more muscle on cycle -- natural supps that relicate the effects of drugs increase the gains and allow them to remain.

So the next time someone what to know how much they'll keep, tell them, maybe all -- maybe none. Personally, I'd rather keep 10 pounds from a 750 mg 6 weeks cycle than 13 pounds from 1500mgs 20 week cycle. And 3 months later with no help, some guys keep none at all. (That's why brigding works so well. It's not coming off).

Go natural for 4 months and test your weight and bf% THAT is what you've gained. Whatever it is, much of it CAN be permanent. It all depends on what you do about it.
 
D

DragonRider

New Member
Sep 17, 2010
8
1
#3
After doing this for 30 something years I have to agree with you, but this is going to piss a lot of people off.
 
Bionixx

Bionixx

MuscleHead
Dec 6, 2011
326
9
#6
True and you use IGF for PCT you will keep 100% and gain alittle more. IGF is the secret.
 
1bigun11

1bigun11

VIP Member
Oct 23, 2010
1,746
1,051
#8
Past a certain point I dont think there is a such thing as permanent gains. Eventually, even if you keep training after you get off the gear, your muscle quantity will drop down to the level of muscle that your natural hormone levels can support and you will eventually lose everything that you gained above this. You will never "permanently" have more than this. And as you age your natural levels will inevitably drop. And if you stop training you will lose it even faster.

Dont kid yourself. Nothing about this is permanent.
 
Times Roman

Times Roman

MuscleHead
Oct 27, 2012
312
33
#9
Past a certain point I dont think there is a such thing as permanent gains. Eventually, even if you keep training after you get off the gear, your muscle quantity will drop down to the level of muscle that your natural hormone levels can support and you will eventually lose everything that you gained above this. You will never "permanently" have more than this. And as you age your natural levels will inevitably drop. And if you stop training you will lose it even faster.

Dont kid yourself. Nothing about this is permanent.
which is why so many look to HGH for "perm" gains. Hyperplasia vs. Hypertrophy
 
sityslicker1

sityslicker1

TID Board Of Directors
Oct 6, 2010
720
205
#10
Past a certain point I dont think there is a such thing as permanent gains. Eventually, even if you keep training after you get off the gear, your muscle quantity will drop down to the level of muscle that your natural hormone levels can support and you will eventually lose everything that you gained above this. You will never "permanently" have more than this. And as you age your natural levels will inevitably drop. And if you stop training you will lose it even faster.

Dont kid yourself. Nothing about this is permanent.
This post is right on the $$$.

which is why so many look to HGH for "perm" gains. Hyperplasia vs. Hypertrophy
This make sense, but then you look at a lot of the top pro's that retired and most of them look to have shrunk down to there normal self- flex, levrone, ray etc.... I know a good majority of them may of had health issues, but still look like average joes, other then dorian.
 
1bigun11

1bigun11

VIP Member
Oct 23, 2010
1,746
1,051
#11
This make sense, but then you look at a lot of the top pro's that retired and most of them look to have shrunk down to there normal self- flex, levrone, ray etc.... I know a good majority of them may of had health issues, but still look like average joes, other then dorian.
Victor Martinez is a recent, dramatic example of this.

 
Last edited:
MorganKane

MorganKane

VIP Member
Nov 12, 2012
1,236
451
#12
I think the biggest mistake is to confuse weight gain with muscle gain.
 
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