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The Homeless crisis

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Pig Vomit

Pig Vomit

VIP Member
Nov 12, 2022
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I do think that mental health and addiction treatment should be available and free to anybody who wants it. The key is: they have to want it. It's been my vast experience that most do not. To give handouts and coddle their criminal behavior, whether it's from mental illness or addiction, is a mistake. I don't even mind providing housing for a limited amount of time for those who have shown at least minimal compliance with mental health or addiction treatment (2 weeks of attending meetings without absence first), or long-term housing for those with serious mental health issues who have demonstrated that taking medications is not effective (that's a small percentage). The "housing first" model without prior demonstration of a commitment to treatment (which is really the same as a willingness to follow laws/rules, which includes rules relating to behavior in homeless housing) is a mistake.

I am tired of the revolving door in California where there is no downside to criminal behavior or addiction due to soft on crime politicians. We've been forced to spend thousands of dollars hardening our rental properties due to vandalism and theft by homeless. Put locks on electrical outlets so they can't charge their phones? They rip off the entire box and use the bare wires to charge, creating liability for us if a child comes across it and gets electrocuted. Have had to install locking gates, self closing doors, cameras, locking mailboxes (we had a huge problem with package/mail theft), etc. Have had break-ins at both our residential units and commercial property (any idea how much it is to repair a broken commercial window? Last time was about $700). Scared tenants, vacancies, decreased rents. Urine and feces on the back patio of our commercial property. It goes on and on.

Also tired of having to wade through a mob of smoking homeless people acting up and aggressively panhandling when I decide to go to Chipotle, Starbucks, Lowes. They've taken over the outside eating areas of many fast food places.

I have tremendous sympathy for *some* homeless (see my original post on this thread), but having to deal with all this, and it's getting worse every day, my sympathy and compassion is dropping. I'm also seeing fewer and fewer homeless people with obvious serious mental illness....it's been taken over by white male parolees (they've got a look, can spot one a mile away due to over 15 years in law enforcement) who go right back to what they know....stealing and partying....as soon as they get out.

Too bad it's not legal in California to deny benefits to people from out of state. That right there would solve a lot of problems around here.

Also, legalizing drugs would not solve the overdose/fentanyl problem. Addicts are always looking for the strongest high and pushing it right to the edge, so legalization isn't going to solve that problem. Probably wouldn't make it worse, but not going to make it better, either. Legalizing and making it *more* available would probably lead to more people prone to addiction giving things a try, possibly leading to more addiction.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
1,503
1,839
Instead of virture signaling here on TID with the 'oh poor tem, I feel so bad" BS. Invite a 'homeless' person into your home and stop insisting we all pay to keep them loaded and shitting on the sidewalk.

Housing them has already failed, they wreck the place, rent it to hookers or trade their dope dealer for the place and they move back under a bridge.
Hope you never find yourself in unpredictably dire times.
Granted, it’s far easier to demean and ignore the homeless crisis than to retain any understanding and compassion for it.
There’s no one correct generalization toward the homeless — Other than they’re all struggling.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
1,503
1,839
I do think that mental health and addiction treatment should be available and free to anybody who wants it. The key is: they have to want it. It's been my vast experience that most do not. To give handouts and coddle their criminal behavior, whether it's from mental illness or addiction, is a mistake. I don't even mind providing housing for a limited amount of time for those who have shown at least minimal compliance with mental health or addiction treatment (2 weeks of attending meetings without absence first), or long-term housing for those with serious mental health issues who have demonstrated that taking medications is not effective (that's a small percentage). The "housing first" model without prior demonstration of a commitment to treatment (which is really the same as a willingness to follow laws/rules, which includes rules relating to behavior in homeless housing) is a mistake.

I am tired of the revolving door in California where there is no downside to criminal behavior or addiction due to soft on crime politicians. We've been forced to spend thousands of dollars hardening our rental properties due to vandalism and theft by homeless. Put locks on electrical outlets so they can't charge their phones? They rip off the entire box and use the bare wires to charge, creating liability for us if a child comes across it and gets electrocuted. Have had to install locking gates, self closing doors, cameras, locking mailboxes (we had a huge problem with package/mail theft), etc. Have had break-ins at both our residential units and commercial property (any idea how much it is to repair a broken commercial window? Last time was about $700). Scared tenants, vacancies, decreased rents. Urine and feces on the back patio of our commercial property. It goes on and on.

Also tired of having to wade through a mob of smoking homeless people acting up and aggressively panhandling when I decide to go to Chipotle, Starbucks, Lowes. They've taken over the outside eating areas of many fast food places.

I have tremendous sympathy for *some* homeless (see my original post on this thread), but having to deal with all this, and it's getting worse every day, my sympathy and compassion is dropping. I'm also seeing fewer and fewer homeless people with obvious serious mental illness....it's been taken over by white male parolees (they've got a look, can spot one a mile away due to over 15 years in law enforcement) who go right back to what they know....stealing and partying....as soon as they get out.

Too bad it's not legal in California to deny benefits to people from out of state. That right there would solve a lot of problems around here.

Also, legalizing drugs would not solve the overdose/fentanyl problem. Addicts are always looking for the strongest high and pushing it right to the edge, so legalization isn't going to solve that problem. Probably wouldn't make it worse, but not going to make it better, either. Legalizing and making it *more* available would probably lead to more people prone to addiction giving things a try, possibly leading to more addiction.
This I can relate with.

Sadly however, out of ignorance of realizing what they’re advocating in their disdain, it seems a fascist approach is what a laymen public at large would like interns of approach to such a crisis.
 
Kluso

Kluso

VIP Member
Oct 30, 2022
872
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Who would think that allowing them to congregate in one place with unfettered access to drugs would lead to drug users who find themselves homeless to flock there? LA is a different situation to any other city. The homeless are the symptom, Californians are the disease. When you said "we bear responsibility" yes you do. I however do not. You still live in a city that does not have enough housing for its residents. You choose to still live there despite the fact that you could leave and have more disposable income. People are supposed to migrate to where you have optimal access to resources. Californians uniquely all hail from a lineage that has followed a gold rush and didn't move on when the gold ran dry.

There's already well documented solutions to the drug problem. Switzerland's model took 20 years to completely solve their drug crisis from the day they decided to transition from criminalization to treatment. Oddly in the US the camps seem to be authoritarian or anarchist in terms of drug policy. Both of which are well documented as abject failures in terms of policy.
Californians are the disease! Love that! Lol. Like you said people flock to where the resources are. And that’s exactly what the homeless have done. Great weather and resources to help them stay homeless.
 
Kluso

Kluso

VIP Member
Oct 30, 2022
872
745
I have mixed feelings about homelessness heroin and fentanyl. I want to help the mentally ill but I'm more of a social Darwinist with drug addicts. If you want to roll the dice with Opiates...make your bed and lie in it. The dilemma is from the reality that MANY drug addicts are "dual diagnosis" and are self-medicating away mental health issues with street drugs instead of therapy or psychopharmacology.

The AMA reports that 1 in 3 with mental health issues will also have substance abuse history.
100%! I can say my drug addiction was mainly self medicating. I feel very lucky to have gotten better before this fentanyl became a problem.
 
Kluso

Kluso

VIP Member
Oct 30, 2022
872
745
I do think that mental health and addiction treatment should be available and free to anybody who wants it. The key is: they have to want it. It's been my vast experience that most do not. To give handouts and coddle their criminal behavior, whether it's from mental illness or addiction, is a mistake. I don't even mind providing housing for a limited amount of time for those who have shown at least minimal compliance with mental health or addiction treatment (2 weeks of attending meetings without absence first), or long-term housing for those with serious mental health issues who have demonstrated that taking medications is not effective (that's a small percentage). The "housing first" model without prior demonstration of a commitment to treatment (which is really the same as a willingness to follow laws/rules, which includes rules relating to behavior in homeless housing) is a mistake.

I am tired of the revolving door in California where there is no downside to criminal behavior or addiction due to soft on crime politicians. We've been forced to spend thousands of dollars hardening our rental properties due to vandalism and theft by homeless. Put locks on electrical outlets so they can't charge their phones? They rip off the entire box and use the bare wires to charge, creating liability for us if a child comes across it and gets electrocuted. Have had to install locking gates, self closing doors, cameras, locking mailboxes (we had a huge problem with package/mail theft), etc. Have had break-ins at both our residential units and commercial property (any idea how much it is to repair a broken commercial window? Last time was about $700). Scared tenants, vacancies, decreased rents. Urine and feces on the back patio of our commercial property. It goes on and on.

Also tired of having to wade through a mob of smoking homeless people acting up and aggressively panhandling when I decide to go to Chipotle, Starbucks, Lowes. They've taken over the outside eating areas of many fast food places.

I have tremendous sympathy for *some* homeless (see my original post on this thread), but having to deal with all this, and it's getting worse every day, my sympathy and compassion is dropping. I'm also seeing fewer and fewer homeless people with obvious serious mental illness....it's been taken over by white male parolees (they've got a look, can spot one a mile away due to over 15 years in law enforcement) who go right back to what they know....stealing and partying....as soon as they get out.

Too bad it's not legal in California to deny benefits to people from out of state. That right there would solve a lot of problems around here.

Also, legalizing drugs would not solve the overdose/fentanyl problem. Addicts are always looking for the strongest high and pushing it right to the edge, so legalization isn't going to solve that problem. Probably wouldn't make it worse, but not going to make it better, either. Legalizing and making it *more* available would probably lead to more people prone to addiction giving things a try, possibly leading to more addiction.
I don’t agree with the last part about addicts always looking for the strongest high. It’s more of the most bang for their buck. Dope is always cut down and of course you want the less cut stuff for the same price. Or to find the better quality product for the same price. Problem is fentanyl is cheaper than heroin and so drug dealers can make more money by adding in fentanyl with their cut heroin. Makes it stronger like it’s not cut. But most are just trying not to be sick and get thru the day. When I was an addict my whole day revolved around making sure I had enough on hand so I could make it to my full time job and take care of my kids when I got off work while my wife worked nights. I think there are millions of addicts out there that are contributing members of society. Way more than the homeless. Probably 10-100 times more. These are the people that are self medicating and just trying deal with life the only way they know how. And the ones that I care about fentanyl killing. I am only off the oxys and later heroin because I got on Suboxone. Which is basically legal drugs. Now my life doesn’t revolve around how I’m gonna get my next fix after work. I would usually be able to get enough to last me a few days at a time but when it can time to get more it was all I cared about because if I couldn’t get more I knew my life would fall apart. I would get sick, not be able to work and not be able to not only take care of my kids but provide for my kids. It was complete insanity. I feel free now. I see my Dr once a month and get my prescription and I don’t have to focus my whole day on how I’m going to get more. Because I didn’t always have a consistent supplier. I would for 6 month nth or a year if I was lucky but then something would happen and that person would either be out or locked up. And I would be screwed. That happened one time and I was so desperate I took a drive into bad areas of Baltimore city not knowing where to go or who to ask. I’m lucky I didn’t get robbed or killed even. Asked some questions helped a guy with his AC. I was driving around in my work truck. It was bad. He knew a guy. Got some heroin. Was scared and ashamed I had turned to this stuff. But I couldn’t get sick and not work. I had a family. So this guy would take me places, he would run in and I would hook him up with a pill or two and I would get enough to last me a few days. Anyways, to make a long story shorter, lol, I found a Dr to get me on Suboxone and it totally saved my life and family. I’m proof that legalization works! Problem is many don’t like Suboxone. Cause it’s not the same as heroin or oxycodone. And when u are on Suboxone you have to get drug tested so no weed or other drugs can be in your system or you will be kicked out of the program. And it’s not always easy to find a Suboxone Dr. I had trouble finding one and he’s not that close to where I live so having transportation might be a factor. But if these people could get pharmacy grade opiates or whatever it would help a lot of people be functioning addicts and contributing members of society imo.
 
Kluso

Kluso

VIP Member
Oct 30, 2022
872
745
I think when you’re on the streets you eliminate the finding part cause u just live and panhandle near the suppliers. So you day evolves around getting the money to pay for the drugs rather than the day spent figuring out where you’re going to get the drugs. I think many just give up on trying to have a family or a job cause it’s easier to live on the street and not have responsibilities. All u have to worry about is getting that fix to feel better. Which honestly is stressful enough. Which legislation would change all of that. Your life stops revolving around the drug. It changes your whole outlook on life. Would change lives. It’s difficult to become a Suboxone Dr too from what I understand so there aren’t enough Drs. I would have to wait two hours sometimes to see the Dr because it was first come first serve when I started with this Dr. Because I’m a “Gold” member now I go to the front of the line. And I think he is open more days now. But we need more of these programs. I’ve never done the methadone clinic thing before but have known people that did. And with methadone you have to go there every morning to get your medicine. Talk about making it hard to stay on the program. If it was just legalized and could get a months worth at a time more would do it. And give them as much as they want. Within reason. Not enough to overdose but if they do that’s on them.
 
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