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The Ghost of IGF

Seabass

Seabass

Member
Feb 19, 2011
67
7
#1
IGF has a lot of interest, and a lot of debate. In this thread I will address some of the various topics regarding IGF.

The first is "Does it work?"

Yes, IGF works, but those accustomed to rapid growth from AAS, especially those with a lot of AAS experience, will not likely be satisfied with the growth they experience, if they experience any at all. And yet a less experienced user with little to no AAS experience will likely become a beleiver for life if done properly. There are many reasons for this disparity.

First, without going into too much detail, lets look at the reality of what IGF does, in a slightly more lamen dialog. IGF stimulates a muscle cell to duplicate itself, creating two fibers where there were once one. This is unlike AAS that causes the single fiber to become a bigger fiber. This distinction is very important.

Imagine a stack of wood of very mature big trees. It would be a big stack. Now add some small twigs to the stack, intersparsed with the big logs, falling into the cracks, taking up the space between. There may be a lot more wood there, but it doesn't make the stack much bigger, or any. If those twigs were allowed to grow much larger, as large as the big mature logs, then the stack would definitely be bigger, but that's not the case. In this way the new twings, the new fibers, add very little meaningful mass or strength to the stack. They will, eventually, when they grow as big as the big logs, but that will take awhile, probably as long as it took the big logs to grow from twigs to their giant size.

In this way an experienced muscle builder using IGF, especially one who is already quite large, is unlikely to see much improvement by using IGF, ever. Someone who has spent 15-25 years building giant muscle fibers would have to spend another 15-25 years growing those new fibers created by IGF. AAS can accelerate this growth, but we all know that AAS are not miricle workers, and growth still takes years of hard work and training.

Now take a stack of twigs. Not very big, not very impressive, not very strong. Some of them are a little bigger than others, but none are really big logs. Now use IGF to double the number of twigs. Still unimpressive, but noticeable, in size and strength. Just like muscle fibers in an untrained or undertrained muscle builder. All their muscle fibers will grow, and progress will be rapid. AAS will accelerate this growth, and it will still take years for substantial change, but the untrained will likely progress faster than the non-IGF user did, all things being equal.

Very simple, if you are older, and very experienced lifting, and very big, you are less likely to see significant results than someone who "isn't ready for peptides yet."

Second, AAS users are normally accustomed to rapid muscle growth. IGF doesn't really work that way. You pin and pin and pin for weeks and months and see little if any growth. Like an infant these cells aren't even mature enough to be stimulated for growth. They have to do their thing and mature into fully functioning muscle cells before they can be activated by the nervous system, used to lift weight and then be stimulated to grow. With or without AAS this can take a year, or longer. Again we are not only talking about cellular growth, but nervous growth as well. No nervous system stimulation, no work, no stress, no growth stimulation, no growth. Use IGF now for growth next year.
 
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Seabass

Seabass

Member
Feb 19, 2011
67
7
#2
The first secret to IGF growth. Creatine.

The thing to take note of is the blurb about creatine and the possibility of myonuclei stimulation and hypertrophy. While this wikipedia-stolen article doesn't discuss it, it's not the creatine that stimulating hypertrophy as much as it is the phosphate donated by the creatine that binds to the receptor as per the IGF binding. Supraphysiological levels of IGF require supraphysiological levels of creatine. Injection is not required, the body obsorbs creatine well enough for our purposes. The key is to take the creatine with a lot of sugar immediately following end of training, mere moments, and right before IGF administration.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Creatine and athletic performanceCreatine is often taken by athletes to help as a supplement for those wishing to gain muscle mass (bodybuilding). There are a number of forms but the most common are creatine monohydrate (creatine complexed with a molecule of water) and creatine ethyl ester (CEE). A number of methods for ingestion exist: as a powder mixed into a drink, or as a capsule or caplet. Once ingested, creatine is highly bioavailable, whether it is ingested as the crystalline monohydrate form, the free form in solution, or even in meat. Creatine salts will become the free form when dissolved in aqueous solution. Conventional wisdom recommends the consumption of creatine with high glycemic index carbohydrates.

There is scientific evidence that short term creatine use can increase maximum power and performance in high-intensity anaerobic repetitive work (periods of work and rest) by 5 to 15%. This is mainly bouts of running/cycling sprints and multiple sets of low RM weightlifting. Single effort work shows an increase of 1 to 5%. This refers mainly to single sprints and single lifting of 1-2RM weights. However, some studies show no ergogenic effect at all. Studies in endurance athletes have been less than promising, most likely because these activities are sustained at a given intensity and thus do not allow for significant intra-exercise synthesis of additional creatine phosphate molecules. Ingesting creatine can increase the level of phosphocreatine in the muscles up to 20%. It must be noted creatine has no significant effect on aerobic endurance, though it will increase power during short sessions of high-intensity aerobic exercise.

Since body mass gains of about 1 kg can occur in a week's time, many studies suggest that the gain is simply due to greater water retention inside the muscle cells. Other studies, however, have shown that creatine increases the activity of satellite cells, which make muscle hypertrophy possible. Creatine supplementation appears to increase the number of myonuclei that satellite cells will 'donate' to damaged muscle fibers, which increases the potential for growth of those fibers. This increase in myonuclei probably stems from creatine's ability to increase levels of the myogenic transcription factor MRF4.

In another study, researchers concluded that changes in substrate oxidation may influence the inhibition of fat mass loss associated with creatine after weight training when they discovered that fat mass did not change significantly with creatine but decreased after the placebo trial in a 12-week study on ten active men. The study also showed that 1-RM bench press and total body mass increased after creatine, but not after placebo. The underlying effect of creatine on body composition has yet to be determined, as another study with a similar timeframe suggests no effect on body composition, but had less overall emphasis on metabolic effects.

There are two scientifically proven ways to supplement with creatine. The first is through a loading phase, in which 20 grams is taken for 5–7 days, followed by a maintenance phase of 3-5 grams a day for periods of 2–3 months at a time. The second consists of taking 3-10 grams of creatine per day for a period of 2–3 months with no loading phase. It is generally recommended to take at least 1–2 weeks off from creatine supplementation in order to maintain a proper response mechanism in the body.

Creatine use is not considered doping and is not banned by the majority of sport-governing bodies. However, in the United States, the NCAA recently ruled that colleges could not provide creatine supplements to their players, though the players are still allowed to obtain and use creatine independently.

Creatine increases the conversion rate from testosterone to dihydrotestosterone in the body. A 2009 study showed that after a 7 day loading phase of creatine supplementation, followed by a further 14 days of creatine maintenance supplementation, while testosterone levels in blood serum were unchanged, levels of dihydrotestosterone increased by 56% after the initial 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance. The ratio of dihydrotestosterone to testosterone also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose. This could explain the fact that creatine users tend to report a slight onset of acne after starting creatine supplementation. It could also be a factor when it comes to the increased athletic performance that has been correlated with creatine supplemenation, although dihydrotestosterone has only minor anabolic effects compared to testosterone.
 
Seabass

Seabass

Member
Feb 19, 2011
67
7
#3
The second secret to IGF growth, is also the secret to creatine optimization. Phosphate.

Creatine works by capturing a phosphate from the bloodstream. It then donates that phosphate to ADP to create ATP. ATP reaction is used for immediate term muscle fuel by donating the phosphate and returning to ADP. It's this phosphate movement that is critical to the muscular energy cycle. That's why marathon runners and cyclists have been experimenting with sodium phosphate loading for years, with positive results.

Here's the thing that relates to muscle building. Creatine captures a phosphate from the bloodstream but where is the phosphate coming from? From dietary phosphate. When the creatine, ATP and ADP cycle uses up the phosphorous, what's left to bind to the IGF-1 receptors? Without a dense supply of phosphate creatine is merely filtered out by the kidneys. Without a dense supply of phosphate IGF-1 stimulation goes unfulfilled, because protein synthesis can't be activated without phosphate binding in concert with IGF-1 binding.

But resistance training is required to stimulate the IGF-1 to bind, sensitizing receptors and stressing the muscles. So the act of stimulating the receptors simultaneously uses up the compounds required for sythesis to take place.

Enter monosodium phosphate. Available as a powdered supplement, and taken at a rate of up to 4g per day in divided doses, monosodium phosphate provides an overabundance of phosphate just like creatine monohydrate provides an overabundance of creatine, together combining invivo to form phosphocreatine, the real goal of creatine supplementation.

The body naturally wants an equillibrium of phosphocreatine and ATP (and ADP). By increasing the blood levels of phosphocreatine the body compensates by raising blood levels of ATP, which can only be a good thing during heavy resistance training. Also, phosphocreatine is not filtered bythe kidney at the same rate as unbound creatine, meaning less creatine goes down the drain.

IGF-1 needs phosphate to do it's thing. Monosodium phosphate supplement will provide that phosphate. Creatine is required to transport that phosphate to the muscle cells. Sugar transports the creatine to the muscle cells where the creatine can do its magic. But sugar does something else too...
 
Seabass

Seabass

Member
Feb 19, 2011
67
7
#4
Insulin is a protein secreted by the pancreas which acts on the liver to stimulate the formation of glycogen from glucose and to inhibit the conversion of non-carbohydrates into glucose. Insulin also promotes facilitated diffusion of glucose through cells with insulin receptors, and of course this means muscle tissue. As you may expect, very high concentrations of insulin have been soundly result in markedly stimulated muscle protein synthesis. It does this mainly at the translational level by enhancing peptide chain initiation. This property and it´s consequent results are probably the things which makes it most interesting to bodybuilders and athletes. This is because those factors combine to make ingested protein more efficient by promoting the transport of amino acids into muscle cells. Ergo, we can clearly say that insulin is undoubtedly anabolic in muscle tissue. It also has an anabolic effect in bone, and thereby increases bone density as well. Another mechanism by which insulin is anabolic is via increasing your body´s IGF (Insulin-like Growth Factor) levels. IGF is an extremely anabolic hormone.

I'm not suggesting taking exogenous insulin, although there are undoubtedly folks who do. No, an insulin reponse to high sugar intake is ample, especially since we need the sugar anyway. For this reason consuming high simple sugar drinks combined with whey protein immediately post workout is crucial to IGF optimization. In this instance, more is better, and you really should use as much sugar as you can stand.
 
D

deadweight

MuscleHead
Sep 20, 2010
2,294
497
#5
seabass.thanks for this great info....it helps me geat a full understnading...now im ready for some igf...great read bro.dw
 
Seabass

Seabass

Member
Feb 19, 2011
67
7
#6
On connection I failed to mention.

IGF does not bind only to the IGF receptor. It also binds to the insulin receptor, in the absence of insulin. If there is abundant insulin in place, it will bump the IGF from the receptor, or prevent IGF from binding to the insulin receptor in the first place. Why is this important? Well if IGF is binding to the insulin receptor it's not binding to the IGF receptor. We want our IGF to bind to the IGF receptor, so we want to make sure than there is plenty of insulin in our system immediately post workout so that our IGF can work where it works best, at the IGF-1 receptor.
 
Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,441
643
#7
Great post...i think most people are lost on this subject. I've been trying to explain the idea of Hyperplasia to people for years and they still don't get it. The best combo possible is IGF use with AAS. Build additional fibers with IGF and then increase the size of those fibers with AAS. It's really a nice deadly combo.
 
Seabass

Seabass

Member
Feb 19, 2011
67
7
#8
If you can tolerate trenbolone, that is the stuff to run during an IGF jag. Not only does tren cause muscles to produce more of their own IGF but it makes the IGF receptors more sensitive, double whammy.

I can't use it, but for those who can, should.
 
ajdos

ajdos

MuscleHead
Sep 8, 2010
2,282
388
#9
I have always enjoyed the use of IGF 1 the problem is new info comes out every month that changes the said protocols and it becomes more and more complicated. I have a simple method I use for myself and thats what seems to make it work half way decently, and the old saying I have with IGF is 'planting the seeds of growth' as the article says it wont happen right away but in a few years you will be substantially larger.
 
D

deadweight

MuscleHead
Sep 20, 2010
2,294
497
#10
I have always enjoyed the use of IGF 1 the problem is new info comes out every month that changes the said protocols and it becomes more and more complicated. I have a simple method I use for myself and thats what seems to make it work half way decently, and the old saying I have with IGF is 'planting the seeds of growth' as the article says it wont happen right away but in a few years you will be substantially larger.
i deff unstood that prat about it not working over night..i sure wish it was that easy but thats when time and deacation comes into play...drill and more drills..that the real deal....and i got much time on my hands to keep on drilling....dw
 
D

deadweight

MuscleHead
Sep 20, 2010
2,294
497
#11
one question people....i do a bottle in my ice box thats been mixed now for about a year...is it still good and how much to use in one injection?should it be sud q or stright into the muscle...
 
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