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Tendon repair and anabolics

MadMick

MadMick

Member
May 12, 2011
99
27
#1
While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS, the decision is up to you.
 
AllTheWay

AllTheWay

TID Lady Member
Mar 17, 2011
4,240
411
#2
this is outstanding information! everybody should read this and take it into account.

im amazed at the half life of equipose and deca in people. it is not near this long in horses. equipose has a half life of 6 days and deca is very short at 8 hours as are winstrol and trenbolone.
 
ajdos

ajdos

MuscleHead
Sep 8, 2010
2,282
388
#3
Old info, but damn good info for people who arent up on this, test is the base for most cycles if you dont throw in some aas that help with collagen syn, and some sups like Vit C you can find your bigger stronger self getting injured.
IGF and GH will also help with tendons and ligaments.
 
Dangling Unit

Dangling Unit

VIP Member
Jan 2, 2011
673
75
#4
With my partially torn patellar tendon, if I were to run a low dosage of Anavar (40-mg) over say a years period, it will help heal it, or is it only for prevention?
 
SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,083
1,256
#5
Not only would it heal faster, but it would heal stronger, when compared to not taking any substance which increases collagen synthesis AND cross-linking integrity. I just happened to be doing a lot of research on this exact subject last night, (had my knee scoped yesterday and had torn cartilage/bone spurs cleaned up and taken out.)
 
Dangling Unit

Dangling Unit

VIP Member
Jan 2, 2011
673
75
#6
I tried to talk my orthopaedic surgeon into a hGH prescription, but he said he'd end up in jail. What a sissy.

"Deca" is stated, but I'm assuming it's nandrolone, any ester.
 
SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,083
1,256
#7
Yes, any nandrolone. HGH is obviously the best option, but I would think bold cyp with anavar would be a comparable stack and would be easier on the pocketbook. Although, since you are on TRT, recovery isn't really an issue, so NPP would be a good sub for bold cyp. Either way, anavar at a low dose with proper liver care, could be used for quite a while with no foreseeable problems, IMO.
 
Ms.Wetback

Ms.Wetback

VIP Lady Member
Sep 27, 2010
1,599
118
#8
To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.
So correct me if I am wrong here.
Hubby is running a Test\Deca cycle and should be running Deca300mg.wk/Test200mg/wk ???

Thoughts..........
 
Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,441
643
#9
Actually, I would argue that dbol is actually very good for collagen synthesis as well. Because it does not bind to the AR in the same fashion or regularity that testosterone does, it has to exert it's effects through other means. The anabolic properties are what's more important about dbol. Yes, it's a muscle builder, but it's also a tendon saver.

I remember a study (don't have the link) where rats who had had their pituitary glands removed were administered dbol. The drug exerted NO anabolic effect whatsoever. In the same study, rats with healthy pituitary glands saw anabolic effects from the drug. So, this leads me to believe that dbol actually may raise GH production in the pituitary and in turn raise collagen synthesis. The increase is not as much as peptides or exogenous GH would give you, but it's a portion of the effects....certainly enough to justify taking it.
 
Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,441
643
#10
So correct me if I am wrong here.
Hubby is running a Test\Deca cycle and should be running Deca300mg.wk/Test200mg/wk ???

Thoughts..........
This articel was clearly written by someone more concerned with collagen synthesis and tendon/ligament sparing than muscle building. It's fine to go over that low amount of testosterone, most people do. In fact, it's pointless to run 100mg EW unless it's going to give you levels higher than what you have naturally. Some guys subscribe to the theory that you don't need testosterone as a basis but it's rather an add on. It's become much more popular these days to have test as the basis for your cycle. I've read other articles that test does NOT destroy collagen synthesis, but rather just doesn't increase it. Again, I think this is another classic example (like liver toxicity of orals) that is overstated a bit. Although, I do think it is important to run something to increase collagen synthesis...that's something you always want working in your favor.
 
SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,083
1,256
#11
So correct me if I am wrong here.
Hubby is running a Test\Deca cycle and should be running Deca300mg.wk/Test200mg/wk ???

Thoughts..........

My thoughts are that while the dosage may be ideal for collagen synthesis, it is also ideal for seeing pronounced deca-effects. I think the solution would not be to raise testosterone dosage, but rather to switch compounds if at all possible, from deca to boldenone and/or anavar and/or hgh. If switching compounds is not an option, then yes, the dosages are spot on for collagen synthesis and repair, but you may have to start troubleshooting other issues as they present.
 
jdjack

jdjack

MuscleHead
Sep 22, 2010
568
32
#12
This is one of the best threads I've read in a while. Thanks.

Anyone know if peps would work best. From what I've read and thought, they would. Thoughts?
 
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