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So....when did macros stop being important?

SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,412
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I eat a tremendous amount of fruit and blend my own smoothies everyday too. Never straight fruit juice, always with the meat of the fruit, but still, FAR more than 40g per day. What should I be looking for in terms of negative health consequences? I’m not lean but I’m not trying to be either, and haven’t noticed any additional fat gain since I’ve upped my fruit. But my skin looks better, I poop better, I think I feel better (but now y’all got me second guessing),and I generally like breaking my 16-18hr fast with a fuckload of fruit and a custom smoothie with all sorts of fresh fruit and spinach and kale and ginger and turmeric and collagen, etc. I feel like my body is craving all the nutrients that I pound into it in that first hour of eating, rather than pounding a steak and potato or something else not so quickly digested.

Thoughts?
 
CJ Smalls

CJ Smalls

Member
Aug 15, 2020
41
36
That’s the often cited amount by the establishment — but like most other matters of nutrition, they’re way off.
Well the 40g seems awfully low, that's about 3 apples. Seems like it might not be accurate either, barring any special circumstances.
 
CJ Smalls

CJ Smalls

Member
Aug 15, 2020
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Thomas Delauer — you familiar with him off hand? He’s pretty decent on research and info, does a nice breakdown here.
I am not, but I added it to my Watch Later list. I can't watch it at the moment.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
525
363
I eat a tremendous amount of fruit and blend my own smoothies everyday too. Never straight fruit juice, always with the meat of the fruit, but still, FAR more than 40g per day. What should I be looking for in terms of negative health consequences? I’m not lean but I’m not trying to be either, and haven’t noticed any additional fat gain since I’ve upped my fruit. But my skin looks better, I poop better, I think I feel better (but now y’all got me second guessing),and I generally like breaking my 16-18hr fast with a fuckload of fruit and a custom smoothie with all sorts of fresh fruit and spinach and kale and ginger and turmeric and collagen, etc. I feel like my body is craving all the nutrients that I pound into it in that first hour of eating, rather than pounding a steak and potato or something else not so quickly digested.

Thoughts?
I used to do the exact same thing. I fucking LOVE fruit. It’s my once every week or two cheat now.
How are your triglycerides, and fasted morning glucose level?
Excessive fructose can (among other things) increase unhealthful cholesterol (small particle size) and lead to chronic elevated insulin that will make you more insulin resistant.
I once did an experiment with a fruitarian diet — close to 3 months. My body fat increased.
 
C

charger69

Member
Jul 4, 2017
67
48
And which is the easiest macro to use for energy? Carbs, then fats, then protein bringing up the rear.

All things being equal, your body will absolutely use available carbohydrate and fatty acids for fuel before dipping into muscle tissue.

If not, it'd be a coin flip when dieting down whether you'd end up jakked or skinny fat.

But yes... When dieting to EXTREME keaness, the body just doesn't want to die, so it'll do whatever it has to do to survive.
So you are saying that under a caloric deprivation, that one only loses fat mass and the fat free mass stays the same unless you are going extreme?


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SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,412
1,783
I used to do the exact same thing. I fucking LOVE fruit. It’s my once every week or two cheat now.
How are your triglycerides, and fasted morning glucose level?
Excessive fructose can (among other things) increase unhealthful cholesterol (small particle size) and lead to chronic elevated insulin that will make you more insulin resistant.
I once did an experiment with a fruitarian diet — close to 3 months. My body fat increased.
Last checkup wasn’t too long ago and my bloodwork was normal, everything in range. The VA can be shit but one thing they’re good at is trying to give you meds for any and everything wrong with your bloodwork, and they didn’t/couldn’t with mine. I don’t know the exact number but within range.

Fasted morning glucose is always right at 100. I check it roughly 4 times a year as my dad is type 2 and his dad as well.

All that said, it can’t be good for me to smash so much fruit. I’ll have to cut back and look at other dense micronutrient sources that also hydrate and provide fiber....which off the top of my head ain’t much. Cruciferous veggies and roots and mushrooms I suppose. Sad.
 
CJ Smalls

CJ Smalls

Member
Aug 15, 2020
41
36
So you are saying that under a caloric deprivation, that one only loses fat mass and the fat free mass stays the same unless you are going extreme?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am NOT saying that. There are many factors that influence the fuel utilized. If you are in a deficit and NOT exercising for example, your body has no reason to hold onto metabolically expensive muscle tissue if it's not being used, so it's at risk of being oxidized.

The further down the extreme leaness road you go, the harder it is to hold onto lean muscle tissue, as there simply isn't much fat or glycogen around.

Like I said in another post, that's why Weight Watchers doesn't promote exercise much, because you'll lose more muscle weight per calorie than fat weight. They don't care where the weight comes from, skinny fat or not.
 
C

charger69

Member
Jul 4, 2017
67
48
I am NOT saying that. There are many factors that influence the fuel utilized. If you are in a deficit and NOT exercising for example, your body has no reason to hold onto metabolically expensive muscle tissue if it's not being used, so it's at risk of being oxidized.

The further down the extreme leaness road you go, the harder it is to hold onto lean muscle tissue, as there simply isn't much fat or glycogen around.

Like I said in another post, that's why Weight Watchers doesn't promote exercise much, because you'll lose more muscle weight per calorie than fat weight. They don't care where the weight comes from, skinny fat or not.
I agree with this but not your previous post. I guess I read your previous post incorrectly
There are numerous studies that show NOrMAL weight loss is 75% fat and 25% muscle(LBm). I understand that you do not agree with this based on your statements. Muscle will begin the break down.


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CJ Smalls

CJ Smalls

Member
Aug 15, 2020
41
36
I agree with this but not your previous post. I guess I read your previous post incorrectly
There are numerous studies that show NOrMAL weight loss is 75% fat and 25% muscle(LBm). I understand that you do not agree with this based on your statements. Muscle will begin the break down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you meant this statement... "And which is the easiest macro to use for energy? Carbs, then fats, then protein bringing up the rear.".. is was meant in terms of metalolism. Proteins have to go through a more extensive chemical process before they're oxided. I should've been more clear.

And in an eucaloric or hypercaloric diet, the risk of losing muscle tissue is pretty low, short of being laid up in bed/immobilized.
 
MrRippedZilla

MrRippedZilla

VIP Member
Feb 18, 2015
17
16
I eat a tremendous amount of fruit and blend my own smoothies everyday too. Never straight fruit juice, always with the meat of the fruit, but still, FAR more than 40g per day. What should I be looking for in terms of negative health consequences? I’m not lean but I’m not trying to be either, and haven’t noticed any additional fat gain since I’ve upped my fruit. But my skin looks better, I poop better, I think I feel better (but now y’all got me second guessing),and I generally like breaking my 16-18hr fast with a fuckload of fruit and a custom smoothie with all sorts of fresh fruit and spinach and kale and ginger and turmeric and collagen, etc. I feel like my body is craving all the nutrients that I pound into it in that first hour of eating, rather than pounding a steak and potato or something else not so quickly digested.
Thoughts?
The idea that you should avoid or cut down on fruit consumption because of fructose falls very nicely into the the category of "missing the forest for the trees". It's the same level of nonsense as avoiding fruit when cutting "because sugars are bad bro".

I wrote this over at UG as an illustration of just how unrealistically terrible most of the fructose data is. I could easily do the same for many other similar studies. My simple advice: when faced with the situation of being guided by your own health parameters (that say fruit is fine) or some dudes on the internet complaining about evil fructose, follow the former.
 
macgyver

macgyver

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 24, 2011
1,777
1,290
I used to do the exact same thing. I fucking LOVE fruit. It’s my once every week or two cheat now.
How are your triglycerides, and fasted morning glucose level?
Excessive fructose can (among other things) increase unhealthful cholesterol (small particle size) and lead to chronic elevated insulin that will make you more insulin resistant.
I once did an experiment with a fruitarian diet — close to 3 months. My body fat increased.

I take in massive amounts of fructose. 4 days a week my shake I consume after my workout is about 80g alone. 1cup apple juice, 2cups strawberries, 1-1 1/2 banana 2 scoops whey.

4 days a week.

When I want MORE carbs, I keep 10lbs of dextrose on had to add even MORE sugar. I am not afraid of sugar as you can tell....

Cholesterol total 140. Triglycerides <50. Healthy ldl/HDL ratio.

Good fasting blood sugar. Used to be chronically low ( sometimes as low as 50). But most always bottom. Since switching to IF , fasted sugar now 'normal'
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
525
363
Last checkup wasn’t too long ago and my bloodwork was normal, everything in range. The VA can be shit but one thing they’re good at is trying to give you meds for any and everything wrong with your bloodwork, and they didn’t/couldn’t with mine. I don’t know the exact number but within range.
Fasted morning glucose is always right at 100. I check it roughly 4 times a year as my dad is type 2 and his dad as well.
All that said, it can’t be good for me to smash so much fruit. I’ll have to cut back and look at other dense micronutrient sources that also hydrate and provide fiber....which off the top of my head ain’t much. Cruciferous veggies and roots and mushrooms I suppose. Sad.
Enjoying “some” fruit is fine. Best (most ancestral) way to enjoy it is seasonally and not excessive. Besides simply being high in fructose, to varying degrees they also produce natural insecticides. Cruciferous veggies are another matter as well.
A lot to be discovered for many otherwise quite knowledgeable folks.
You can gain so much insight from the following book (and individual) and I’m pretty certain you’d really enjoying all it has to say: The Carnivore Code, by Paul Saladino MD
 
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