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Shrink the Prostate, Power up the Penis

NavyChief

NavyChief

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A plant chemical proves to be as effective in shrinking the prostate as prescription drugs, but far safer. Bonus: It also treats erectile dysfunction.
by TC Luoma | 12/29/18



Sooner or later, men who are into strength and/or muscle start to think about tinkering with their natural testosterone levels. It comes with the territory. However, hormonal manipulation generally brings with it the deep-seated fear that it's going to cause our prostates to swell to Hindenburg-ish proportions.

Oh, the humanity!
Hell, even if we don't do a thing to manipulate testosterone levels, nature plays its cruel, prostate-growing trick on us anyways. Aging causes testosterone levels to decline, but simultaneously, levels of the enzyme that turns testosterone into dihydrotestosterone (DHT) increases, and DHT plays a big role in prostate growth.
5-alpha reductase-inhibiting drugs like finasteride and dutasteride can help by preventing the conversion of testosterone into DHT, but they can have serious side effects like orthostatic hypotension (low blood pressure when you stand up), decreased libido, and even erectile dysfunction.
There appears to be a safe alternative, though. Scientists, for the first time, have published a study on the protective effects of pycnogenol, a pine bark extract, on prostate growth.

What They Did
Pycnogenol is a polyphenol that's long been touted to control glucose levels and increase nitric oxide levels, which means that it's good for fighting diabetes and strengthening erections.
Impressive, but a group of Korean scientists wanted to know if pycnogenol would also cause a reduction in DHT concentrations. To test their theory, they procured a mischief of Sprague-Dawley rats and divided them into five groups:
  • Group 1 received a daily injection of buffered saline and corn oil.
  • Group 2 received a daily injection of buffered saline and testosterone propionate (3 mg/kg).
  • Group 3 got the same treatment as group 2, but also received the 5-alpha reductase inhibiting drug, finasteride (10 mg/kg).
  • Group 4 got the same treatment as group 2, but also received 20 mg/kg of pycnogenol.
  • Group 5 got the same treatment as group 2, but also received 40 mg/kg of pycnogenol.
What They Found
The rats that received testosterone propionate had significantly larger and heavier prostates than the rats in the normal control group. The rats that got both testosterone and pycnogenol had significantly decreased prostate weights, which were comparable to those in the finasteride-treated group. The 40 mg/kg of pycnogenol group showed particularly favorable results.
"...the oral administration of PYC (pycnogenol) in rat model of BPH (benign prostate hyperplasia) significantly decreased the weight of the prostate and prostatic hyperplasia, which resulted from lower DHT concentrations in the serum and prostate," concluded the researchers. "Our findings thus strongly suggested that PYC may be a useful agent for the treatment of BPH."

What This Means to You
There are a couple of potential problems with this study. For one thing, it was done on rats, but it would be kinda' unethical to artificially balloon up human prostates, so we're stuck with the rats. Still, chemistry is chemistry, and rat testosterone/DHT is no different than human testosterone/DHT.
Secondly, the pycnogenol doses used in the study were rather large. The equivalent daily dosage for a hypothetical 150-pound man would be a little over 2700 mg., which equates to a small handful of the average-dosed, 200 mg. pycnogenol capsules.
Of course, the researchers also testosteroned the hell out of the rats, giving them the 150-pound human male equivalent of almost 3 grams a week. Contrast that with the 100 to 200 mg. that's commonly prescribed to males for the purpose of testosterone replacement.
Other studies involving pycnogenol, albeit for other purposes, used far smaller daily dosages. For instance, one found that two daily 40 mg. doses was effective in treating erectile dysfunction, and another found that 200 mg. a day was useful in treating high blood pressure.
Personally, I'm betting that two daily dosages of 200 mg. would effectively cover my DHT bases, thus helping prevent hair loss (which is also related to DHT levels) and BPH while also augmenting erectile strength. Fixing or curing an already-enlarged prostate might take heftier doses, though. As is nearly always the case, more research is needed.
Source
  1. Je-Won Ko, So-Won Park, Na-Rae Shin, et al. "Inhibitory effects of Pycnogenol®, a pine bark extract, in a rat model of testosterone propionate-induced benign prostatic hyperplasia,"Lab Anim Res. 2018 Sep;34(3):111-117.
 
PillarofBalance

PillarofBalance

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Feb 27, 2011
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Interesting and all but the current drugs for bph have a record of safety in human use and this study only looks at rats.
 
IronInsanity

IronInsanity

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Do you take this stuff? If so, what for and how is it working for you?
 
Mike_RN

Mike_RN

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I take 60mg of Pycnogenol with 500mg of Cardiose every morning and another 60mg of Pycnogenol with 5g of Arginine when its "Boom Boom" time. I managed to get my PMD to prescribe 5mg Cialis ED for BPH and the combo of all 4 drugs has eliminated my urgency, frequency and incomplete emptying issues brought on by age (48) and excessive AAS abuse. I don't get up 6 times to piss and can empty my bladder on call (unlike the usual piss every hour). The "boom boom" dose makes 5mg/day work like taking 40mg Cialis with 50mg Viagra.

Good evidence for Cardiose and Pycnogenol as NO producers and for overall Cardiovascular health.
 
tommyguns2

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I take 60mg of Pycnogenol with 500mg of Cardiose every morning and another 60mg of Pycnogenol with 5g of Arginine when its "Boom Boom" time. I managed to get my PMD to prescribe 5mg Cialis ED for BPH and the combo of all 4 drugs has eliminated my urgency, frequency and incomplete emptying issues brought on by age (48) and excessive AAS abuse. I don't get up 6 times to piss and can empty my bladder on call (unlike the usual piss every hour). The "boom boom" dose makes 5mg/day work like taking 40mg Cialis with 50mg Viagra.

Good evidence for Cardiose and Pycnogenol as NO producers and for overall Cardiovascular health.

Thanks Mike, I'm definitely going to look into this. I present do the daily Cialis and Saw Palmetto, but still have to get up 1-2 times per night to pee. Don't struggle with any ED issues, but would like to pee like "old days."
 
Snachito1

Snachito1

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I take 60mg of Pycnogenol with 500mg of Cardiose every morning and another 60mg of Pycnogenol with 5g of Arginine when its "Boom Boom" time. I managed to get my PMD to prescribe 5mg Cialis ED for BPH and the combo of all 4 drugs has eliminated my urgency, frequency and incomplete emptying issues brought on by age (48) and excessive AAS abuse. I don't get up 6 times to piss and can empty my bladder on call (unlike the usual piss every hour). The "boom boom" dose makes 5mg/day work like taking 40mg Cialis with 50mg Viagra.

Good evidence for Cardiose and Pycnogenol as NO producers and for overall Cardiovascular health.
Mike what brands do you use, as that's what always makes me not want to take anything as I don't know which supplement companies I can trust to carry the actual ingredient or the right dosage in the product?
 
Mike_RN

Mike_RN

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Mike what brands do you use, as that's what always makes me not want to take anything as I don't know which supplement companies I can trust to carry the actual ingredient or the right dosage in the product?
Sorry I missed this earlier. Even though they run a little pricey, LEF (Life Extension Foundation) is all GMP and standardized for potency and purity. I get the Cardiose from their NitroVasc product which runs around $13 a bottle for 30ct x 500mg. I have autoship with them for my wife's supplements since she has MS and I want to be sure her shit is the Cadillac of OTC drugs. It's also the only place I've seen it stateside besides the manufacturers.

The Pycnogenol and Arginine are from NOW foods you can go for a cheaper brands here as long as the main ingredient is the Trademarked Pycnogenol not French Pine Bark (generic not made from the strain of researched tree.) Aminos are so plentiful I get 500g of Arginine from whoever is running a sale.
 
Snachito1

Snachito1

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Sorry I missed this earlier. Even though they run a little pricey, LEF (Life Extension Foundation) is all GMP and standardized for potency and purity. I get the Cardiose from their NitroVasc product which runs around $13 a bottle for 30ct x 500mg. I have autoship with them for my wife's supplements since she has MS and I want to be sure her shit is the Cadillac of OTC drugs. It's also the only place I've seen it stateside besides the manufacturers.

The Pycnogenol and Arginine are from NOW foods you can go for a cheaper brands here as long as the main ingredient is the Trademarked Pycnogenol not French Pine Bark (generic not made from the strain of researched tree.) Aminos are so plentiful I get 500g of Arginine from whoever is running a sale.
Thank you tons Mike, I actually had come upon LEF stuff when looking for Pycnogenol products. I just turned 50 I gotta protect that little prostate o'mine and keep an eye on cardiac health too!!
 
CFM

CFM

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Interesting and all but the current drugs for bph have a record of safety in human use and this study only looks at rats.

Human safety according to the FDA? Flomax causes 'dry ejaculation' I know this how? I know, oh fucking know. You might "oh big deal", well then by all means..... Finasteride blocks DHT and is only prescribed for 3-6 months tops. Not making shit up. Not giving my opinion. I ran a cycle of Fin and went from shaving E2-3D to shaving E5-6D. I put on fat in areas no man should. Worst ED ever. Felt like death warmed over.

So, harmless as in won't kill you, okay I'll agree.
 
Mike_RN

Mike_RN

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Thank you tons Mike, I actually had come upon LEF stuff when looking for Pycnogenol products. I just turned 50 I gotta protect that little prostate o'mine and keep an eye on cardiac health too!!
Warning I am a nurse and I speak in graphic terms about real health issues... TMI warning

After a recent long run of higher doses (1g Test Blend with 600mg of Deca...thought it'd be fun lol) my prostate was acutely enlarged due to excess estrogen. I've never been gyno prone and rarely used Anti-E's except during BB Show Prep. Because of this lack of gyno risk, I never had any issues with excess estrogen with higher gear doses. That was until this last cycle and turning 48. It was bad enough that I could feel my prostate when I took a shit and was pissing all day but never emptying my bladder.

I didn't want to use Flomax (Tamsulosin) or DHT blockers as they come with terrible side effects (for me and many men). I know this is anecdotal evidence but I work in PACU now for the last year (Anesthesia Recovery Post-Op) and I take care of 10-15 men per week post TURP (Prostate resection). Roughly a 1/4 of them have reported "dry ejaculation"(you actually nut into your bladder) or weak/odd orgasms while on Tamsulosin and DHT is not a hormone I want to block as libido, strength and "mojo" are directly related.

Anywho, I used L.E.F.'s Ultra Natural Prostate formula at 2caps 2xday, with the rest of the described protocol and 20mg of Cialis EOD for about 10days and was 90% better. I cut the Ultra Prostate formula after 2wks (does have Saw Palmetto which does block some DHT) and remain on the Cardiose and Pycnogenol today. The combo of Pycno/Arginine is great pre-workout and for sex as well. In addition to the 5mg/day dose of Cialis, I will sometimes use another/more PDE5 inhibitors (Viagra or Cialis) if I'm dog tired or going to be drinking but the supplements have also made my "non-enhanced" erections better as a side effect.

My wife's 8yrs my junior and cruising on low dose PrimoE so I can't afford to be on the injury list :p
 
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DungeonDweller

DungeonDweller

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Anyone got any links for some good stuff? So many have similar names, say they are renamed, etc. Frighteningly several on Amazon say what they do but don't list ingredients.
 
Tuffoldman

Tuffoldman

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Ok ok, let's get back to the Flomax PLEASE.. I take that shit every day and have for a year now. I have to get up 5 times a night if I don't but when I talk to my Doc he says my prostate is fine but Flomax just help you empty your bladder better?? Am I not understanding him correctly? It makes a huge difference I rarely have to get up in the middle of the night anymore which is good I don't sleep much as it is.

I can't take Arginine sups because of cold sores are bad if I do anything with it added in.

I don't think I've had any issues other than I do take Vardenafil now and again maybe once per week when it gets close to the weekend and maybe an extra blue pill if its going to be a busy weekend. Oh TMI but my wife and I are swingers so there can be 2-3 different people each weekend so I am a recreational user of the little blue pill. Hey I'm old haha.

Anyway, my question is the Flowmax is causing What?? Sorry trying to wrap my head around this I have never seen anything come up before.
 
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