Sets & reps?

[Wallyd]

Most of us on her are getting to the point we are considered “seasoned” (sounds better than old). I’m just curious if you guys lean more toward volume training of fewer total sets but keeping the weight as heavy as you can with good form. Also how often are you honestly going to positive failure? I’ve been doing the volume thing for awhile but I feel like I’ve gone stale with it. I usually try to get to positive failure on most sets while still having good form.

I bring this up because I just saw a video where Sam Sulek was discussing this & said he was going to do 5 sets for back. I took it as he meant 5 total sets & he added that he felt like the volume game wasn’t really working for him.

I don’t follow him or think he is the best coach by any means but it did make me think a little. I always used to pyramid everything.

 

[Therealkiller]

Since no one posted yet, I'll take a shot.

I have for the most part been a lower type of volume guy (from what I can at least remember, or say the last 20 years), going to 1-2 reps short of failure in good from (but yet things still tear all the time?) with the movement not slowing down to much. I will add some drop sets on occasion.

When I talk to about sets it is work sets. My fav and go to for those past 2 decades is a 4 days split over 5 days (when I am actually healthy but the legs have not really been part of that for 7 years).
I like chest/bis, back/rear delt/traps, shld/tri, and legs (but as I said that is pretty much a no go).
I don't find hitting back the day after bis hurts my back workout and adds a little volume for bis.
My week would be M, T, W, Thur off, F, Sat, Sun off. So once a month the Monday workout gets hit on Sat for added frequency. The workouts will just move through the week from week to week
I like this program at is allows me to warm-up only one or two joints per workout, unlike a full body or other splits. If something comes up during the week I can always switch the day for W and Thur. This split would also play a part in CHO cycling.
My workout sets will depend on how I am feeling both physically and mentally. I have found that now that I am more "seasoned" I can run out of steam and not feel the pump, movement, or just be going through the motions. If all is good I will add some sets, but also if I kill the first couple sets on a lift I may just say that is good for today and I'll come back better next time.
Chest = 8 sets
Bis = 6 or 7
Back = 9 sets
Rear Delt = 3
Trap = 4
Shld = 7 ish
Tri = 6 or 7
Legs = well if I could train them 12-14

I have pretty much always found that 4 work sets feels redundant.

Warm-ups will be 3 sets before starting the bodypart of the day working up in weight and decreasing reps of with active stretching, joint mobs between the warm-up sets, and including some antagonist sets.
I like to start all workouts with some T-Spine mobs and on upper body movements band shoulder dislocates and pull-aparts.

I generally listen to what Dr Brad Schoenfeld has to say on frequency and volume and of course it is a bell curve and when looking at research and so fourth you have to remember that factors outside of the gym are going to influence volume.

 

[Bigtex]

Most of us on her are getting to the point we are considered “seasoned” (sounds better than old). I’m just curious if you guys lean more toward volume training of fewer total sets but keeping the weight as heavy as you can with good form. Also how often are you honestly going to positive failure? I’ve been doing the volume thing for awhile but I feel like I’ve gone stale with it. I usually try to get to positive failure on most sets while still having good form.

I bring this up because I just saw a video where Sam Sulek was discussing this & said he was going to do 5 sets for back. I took it as he meant 5 total sets & he added that he felt like the volume game wasn’t really working for him.

I don’t follow him or think he is the best coach by any means but it did make me think a little. I always used to pyramid everything.

I spent 27 year of my life as a powerlifter, extremely low volume and extremely high intensity. It took a few year to break this habit and for the last maybe 15 years I have graduated to a much higher volume. I love the heavy weight but just can't handle it any more because of osteoarthritis in several joints.

Right now I am trying to rehab shoulder replacement surgery (week#10) so I am only going to the gym 3 days/wk. I very rarely have ever trained to failure and honestly see no need. Start off with lighter weight and progress to heavy sets and always add more weight the next week. I try to rest 1 minute between sets and two minutes between exercises so I move petty quickly getting my hart rate very close to max for my age (152bpm). My workouts usually last about 1 hour. So my goal is not only keeping some muscle mass on but working in a HR range that has maximum benefits to the cardiovascular system. I always try to add as much variety in exercise selections as the gym allows. I am kind of limited due to the shoulder surgery.

Monday - 30 sets total
Chest - 15 sets
Incline 5 x 10
Flat/Decline 5 x 10
Flyes - 5 x 10
Back – 15 sets
Back width 5 x 10
Back thickness 5 x 10
Traps 5 x 10

Wednesday - Limited in what I can do because of knee and low back issues
Legs – 20 sets
Leg press 5 x 10
Extensions 5 x 10
Hams 5 x 10
Calves 5 x 10

Friday - 35 sets total
Shoulders 15 sets
Front 5 x 10
Side 5 x 10
Rear 5 x 10
Arms – 20 sets
Triceps 5 x 10
Triceps 5 x 10
Biceps 5 x 10
Biceps 5 x 10

 

[woodswise]

I rely on my coach for training during the week. Saturdays we do a group session for 3 hours and I mostly train myself with my coach's input. I think it is fair to say we mostly rely on four approaches.

First is volume with as high a weight we can handle for 8-10 reps, with occasional heavy low volume. For the past 6 months we have been doing chest dumbbell presses as our first exercise. In general we do two to three weeks of volume with one week of low reps high weight. During the volume workouts I aim to keep the volume similar from week to week, with slightly different weights.

For example, two Saturdays ago, I pressed 80 lbs for four sets of 10 (80 x 40 = 3,200 lbs total work), last Saturday I pressed 90 lbs for four sets of 8 reps (90 x 32 = 2880 total work) and today I pressed 100 lbs for four sets, the first set for 3 reps and the other three for 4 reps (100 x 15 = 1500 total work).

Next Saturday I'll go back to 80 lbs and try for four sets of 15 reps (80 x 60 = 4800). The following week, 90 lbs for four sets of 10 reps or more if I can (90 x 40 = 3,600). The week after that 100 lbs for four sets of 8 reps (100 x 32 = 3,200).

That is the core approach we use for training.

Second is a single low volume set followed by high volume sets. For those we'll hit a single or double at our 2 or 3 rep max, then drop the weight and do some volume work. So doing deadlifts I would work up to 455 lbs for two (yes I am weak these days) and if I can get them, three reps, then drop back to a few sets of 365 for as many as I can get (probably three sets of 5 to 7 reps).

Third is low volume for a number of sets, i.e. five sets of 2 or 3 reps at 85% of1 rep max. We sometimes follow up the low volume with a high volume set at a 65% of 1RM.

The fourth variation we use on smaller muscle groups is to do a very high rep set with light weights. So empty barbell overhead for 100 reps in as few sets as I can. Db side laterals 15 lbs for two sets of 50. Etc.

I imagine my coach could break it down further, and he would probably take exception to my description, but that's why he's the coach and I am a student.

 

[woodswise]

I spent 27 year of my life as a powerlifter, extremely low volume and extremely high intensity. It took a few year to break this habit and for the last maybe 15 years I have graduated to a much higher volume. I love the heavy weight but just can't handle it any more because of osteoarthritis in several joints.

Right now I am trying to rehab shoulder replacement surgery (week#10) so I am only going to the gym 3 days/wk. I very rarely have ever trained to failure and honestly see no need. Start off with lighter weight and progress to heavy sets and always add more weight the next week. I try to rest 1 minute between sets and two minutes between exercises so I move petty quickly getting my hart rate very close to max for my age (152bpm). My workouts usually last about 1 hour. So my goal is not only keeping some muscle mass on but working in a HR range that has maximum benefits to the cardiovascular system. I always try to add as much variety in exercise selections as the gym allows. I am kind of limited due to the shoulder surgery.

Monday - 30 sets total
Chest - 15 sets
Incline 5 x 10
Flat/Decline 5 x 10
Flyes - 5 x 10
Back – 15 sets
Back width 5 x 10
Back thickness 5 x 10
Traps 5 x 10

Wednesday - Limited in what I can do because of knee and low back issues
Legs – 20 sets
Leg press 5 x 10
Extensions 5 x 10
Hams 5 x 10
Calves 5 x 10

Friday - 35 sets total
Shoulders 15 sets
Front 5 x 10
Side 5 x 10
Rear 5 x 10
Arms – 20 sets
Triceps 5 x 10
Triceps 5 x 10
Biceps 5 x 10
Biceps 5 x 10

Excellent! How long does it take you to do your leg workout? On weekdays I get in a 45 minute session on a good day and doing chest, or back I am lucky to get 10 sets done. On leg days I typically get 5 sets of between 8 and 15 reps, depending on how heavy the weight is. Lately we have been increasing the total number of sets by doing supersets, so I may get to 15 working sets on occasion. My coach tells me I am not fast enough, because he can get 20 sets in the same training time. Hahaha!

 

[Bigtex]

Excellent! How long does it take you to do your leg workout? On weekdays I get in a 45 minute session on a good day and doing chest, or back I am lucky to get 10 sets done. On leg days I typically get 5 sets of between 8 and 15 reps, depending on how heavy the weight is. Lately we have been increasing the total number of sets by doing supersets, so I may get to 15 working sets on occasion. My coach tells me I am not fast enough, because he can get 20 sets in the same training time. Hahaha!

It takes me about 1 hour to do legs. I think going slower with the rest period is much more optimal from growth/strength because you can lift more. However at my age I am more concerned with not putting so much stress on my already fucked up knees and train faster and may only go up 5 lbs a week.

I was starting at 8 reps and each week added reps instead of weight (8,,10, 12 15) until I was doing the same weight for 15 reps, then add 5 lbs and repeat. So this would be a 4 week cycle. My wife is a former IFBB pro and trains more similar to you do but never counts reps, she just keeps going until she hits failure. I am much more methodical and plan what I am going to do. I still keep a paper log book like I did powerlifting.

You just have to find out what works best for you and go with it. We are all individual and all respond differently. I tried this Dogg Crapp stuff for a while and liked it because I was lifting much heavier but my joints just can't take that much stress any longer.

 

[Wallyd]

I want to thank everyone that responded! I’ve been switching things up a lot more now as far as how far I take a set & the reps I’m doing. I’ve also been changing up the order as far as when I’ll do my heaviest set (see wood wise post & thanks for sharing that)! I think I just got in a rut & needed to switch things up more.

 

[Wallyd]

It takes me about 1 hour to do legs. I think going slower with the rest period is much more optimal from growth/strength because you can lift more. However at my age I am more concerned with not putting so much stress on my already fucked up knees and train faster and may only go up 5 lbs a week.

I was starting at 8 reps and each week added reps instead of weight (8,,10, 12 15) until I was doing the same weight for 15 reps, then add 5 lbs and repeat. So this would be a 4 week cycle. My wife is a former IFBB pro and trains more similar to you do but never counts reps, she just keeps going until she hits failure. I am much more methodical and plan what I am going to do. I still keep a paper log book like I did powerlifting.

You just have to find out what works best for you and go with it. We are all individual and all respond differently. I tried this Dogg Crapp stuff for a while and liked it because I was lifting much heavier but my joints just can't take that much stress any longer.

It sounds like my workouts were more like your wife’s.

 

[Bigtex]

It sounds like my workouts were more like your wife’s.

She is a true old school bodybuilder. I am a mixed up powerlifter trying to find my way. In powerlifting, you would be a fool to hit failure and you would never get very many spotters. I still don't use a spotter so I don't take a chance at missing anything. I even prefer a smith machine over benches just incase I hit failure. Yep, my wife tells me all the time she doesn't know why I count reps and has no idea how many she does or how many sets she does.

 

[SoltaniKabob]

Usually, I pick a certain amount of times I'm going to do an exercise (25, 50, etc), and I do it in as few intervals as possible. So, if I'm doing 50 curls, I might do 30, rest for a minute, do 10, rest and then do 10 more. I usually train on lighter weights and do a lot of cardio mixed in with my sets to get just a really spread-out whole body exercise every single time. I rarely/never spot train.

To me, that style of training is the closest to what our ancestors would have done hunting/fishing/etc in the wild, and it's closer to the kind of manual labor a lot of folks still do today. The classic example to me is down-stacking a truck in a restaurant. If I have a pallet with 50 cases of 35LB chicken wings that I need to down-stack in the walk-in fridge but the pallet is too wide to fit through the kitchen door, that means I have to individually pick up and carry each case from the back door of the restaurant all the way to the walk-in 50 times. Now repeat this process for 50 LB bales of potatoes, 50 LB cases of onions, 40 LB cases of lettuce, etc. over the next 4 hours. To me, that's training to failure. And, when I worked like that 3-5 days a week, I was definitely at my peak performance.

I know that trains muscles for endurance rather than power and bulk, so I might not see the same gains as someone who does 5 reps with a huge weight, but I'm training for overall health and fitness first and foremost. I've been 180 LBS of lean muscle before, and I've been the 230 LB guy who can pick up a 50LB bale of potatoes with one hand but can't run 1/4 of a mile. The first one just feels better to me, and my cholesterol/labs were always way better when I was lean muscle even if I wasn't jacked.

 

[genetic freak]

For years I was a pretty strict DC guy. Then I started to alter my DC training a bit, taking less sets passed failure and a lot more top/back off sets. Now I perform a lot more Myo Matching Sets on my big compound movements where I take 3 sets with a specific rep number. For example, maybe I can do 315 lbs on Smith Incline Press for 15 reps, which is true failure. I will perform 3 sets of 12 reps with 2 minutes rest in between sets. The first set is 3 RIR, the second is 1-2 RIR and usually on the third set I am failing right at 12 reps. Now I have 3 very effective sets without the same amount of fatigue I would get from a typical rest pause set.

I train each body part twice a week and do 4-6 working sets per body part each training session, so 8-12 working sets per week.

 

[tommyguns2]

After struggling with nagging injuries, I dropped my weight substantially about 5 or so years ago, and upped my reps. It's worked to the extent that the injuries and ridiculous inflammation have gone away.

In a cutting phase, I'll hit each bodypart twice per week. Two warm up sets of 20-30 reps to get some blood flow to the target muscle. Then 3 working sets, followed by an immediate drop sets to drive as much blood flow to the target muscle as possible. While I don't think this is a great way to increase size, I think it works quite well to maintain size while dropping the bodyfat.

Could you grow on this? I think so, but your anabolic load and food would need to be pretty high. Otherwise, if it's just high food, you'll get fluffy.