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r/trt forum reddit. What a laugh.

D

DocOxRedox

Member
Feb 25, 2024
20
10
I tried the low carb/keto thing and it is great for fat loss, but found it to be catabolic if you are a bodybuilder. Once you get lean enough and your fat stores have dwindled, your body starts turning to muscle for energy through gluconeogenesis instead of fat. If you are a bodybuilder, I have found it is better to cycle your carbs based off your training. It keeps the energy levels still relatively high even when you get down to 5-6% bodyfat and doesn't crush your thyroid like a low carb/keto diet. Once you are lowering than that, energy levels suck no matter what.

You are 100% correct on the genetics playing a big piece. You had to go to a low carb/keto diet to get your cholesterol under control. I can eat anything I want, literally could eat McDonalds 6 times a day and my cholesterol will be fine. Even running gear that historically kills your cholesterol, the highest my cholesterol has been in the last 25 years is around 120. However, I have blood viscosity issues even when I don't run anything if I eat red meat. My iron uptake is freaking ridiculous.
I'd say as a general rule that is pretty much spot on, anomalies exist but they are not the norm. While I hovered around the 8-10% for almost 15 years, genetics caught up and my BF slowly crept up, and along w/ sudden injuries pushed me into the keto diet then now HRT. When I was younger I might have tried to get lower just to try but now I have a lot more crap going on and I also enjoy having a night cap so I am now trying to find a balance.

With respect to carbs, even when I was on a lower carb diet I was always bloated feeling and the switch to keto took care of that. While I did hit keto before I found my doc and my energy levels now vs before are completely different I really need to start re-assessing which carbs I can and cannot have w/o raising my cholestrol or making me bloated.

You mentioned TSH levels and for me, keto or high carb diets, my labs are somewhere between 2.4 and 2.5 for the last 15 years or so. However, I never got to your lower levels of BF so I have no idea what would have happened.

Its interesting that your #s are good even w/ gear and Mc'Ds type food but I think that all boils down to genetics. Too many tools think they can gear up and get jacked or take the latest super special swole booster from GNCTechAnimalExtremebarelylegaljuice and see "massive gains." I've been saying it for 35 years, genetics, genetics, genetics. You cannot get beyond that double helix, at best just to the edge, but no one goes beyond that. I've seen guys geared up for years, on what some would say is higher dosing and most were able to keep 85-90% of their gains even after being clean for years beyond.

I'm assuming you donate blood as one way to lower your viscosity?
 
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DocOxRedox

Member
Feb 25, 2024
20
10
I have come to that same conclusion. My (current) PCP is a partner in an Internal Medicine group, which in turn is affiliated with 1 of the 2 hospital "empires" that has swallowed up my neck of the woods. He wanted to put me on Eliquis, a blood thinner that is now on the government's top 10 list of overpriced drugs to go after. Coincidentally(?), it is still under Patent protection they had persuaded the gov't to extend ... there are no cheaper generics available yet.

I am asymptomatic, and the CBC part of my lab work has all markers within "Normal" btw. I discussed this with the Doc, and it was like a discussion with a used car salesman. I am holding off on firing the doctor so far simply because most of them in my area may practice Medicine with similar priorities, but I didn't buy the used car.

Oh ... welcome to TID :).
Yes, isn't that intriguing - sarcasm of course.... How the gov claims to go after overpriced meds but they are the same entity approving said patents extensions. Kind of law how congress passed law that you can't sue over any vaccine but you can file a claim w/ the gov who then decides if you have a claim then give you a 1 time payout. IIRC the highest payout is 1.5 and the ave is 400k and is paid by the US gov, not the pharma company.

I discovered years ago that the FDA has a fast track program in which pharma companies pay to have their wares 'pre-approved' w/ the promise of continued research and clinical trials. Knowing the gov and pharmas history, I give significant pause to anything new being pushed out. Pharma was the #1 lobbying entity for 2019, literally beating out every other group by a significant margin and they are one of the top donating groups for the last few years running.... . Just sayin :rolleyes: It must be coincidental that every other commercial I see on TV is for some pharma drug.

Its funny you mention "normal" ranges as I had that discussion w/ my primary last summer and the doc kept mentioning my total #'s without taking into consideration my free was below clinical's in the 120 range. I threw out some data about pharma, the med industry and the concept of "normal or acceptable" and while she agreed w/ me she refused my current protocol but offered me T.

Its sad that you are running into that issue. A buddy of mine is experiencing the same thing, his #'s are all over the place but his hrt teledoc won't change anything and he's almost 3 hours from the nearest VA. Docs should be in the business of solving the problem to alleviate the symptom but at best, most only know how to treat symptoms.

Thanks! Everyone has different experiences and I hope that this forum along w/ some of the others continue to have members who prop each other up, have conversations about opposing ideas vs knocking others down. Reddit is a shit show full of idiots, try to point out a different idea and its like a feeding frenzy.
 
genetic freak

genetic freak

VIP Member
Dec 28, 2015
2,705
3,506
I'd say as a general rule that is pretty much spot on, anomalies exist but they are not the norm. While I hovered around the 8-10% for almost 15 years, genetics caught up and my BF slowly crept up, and along w/ sudden injuries pushed me into the keto diet then now HRT. When I was younger I might have tried to get lower just to try but now I have a lot more crap going on and I also enjoy having a night cap so I am now trying to find a balance.

With respect to carbs, even when I was on a lower carb diet I was always bloated feeling and the switch to keto took care of that. While I did hit keto before I found my doc and my energy levels now vs before are completely different I really need to start re-assessing which carbs I can and cannot have w/o raising my cholestrol or making me bloated.

You mentioned TSH levels and for me, keto or high carb diets, my labs are somewhere between 2.4 and 2.5 for the last 15 years or so. However, I never got to your lower levels of BF so I have no idea what would have happened.

Its interesting that your #s are good even w/ gear and Mc'Ds type food but I think that all boils down to genetics. Too many tools think they can gear up and get jacked or take the latest super special swole booster from GNCTechAnimalExtremebarelylegaljuice and see "massive gains." I've been saying it for 35 years, genetics, genetics, genetics. You cannot get beyond that double helix, at best just to the edge, but no one goes beyond that. I've seen guys geared up for years, on what some would say is higher dosing and most were able to keep 85-90% of their gains even after being clean for years beyond.

I'm assuming you donate blood as one way to lower your viscosity?
For the carbs. If you re-introduce them back in then do it where you have carb and no carb days built instead of just having low to medium carbs every day. That will help with the bloat. Maybe on training days you push them up to 200-250 g and on non training days you stay below 50 g. I have found I can push as high as 1000 g for a high day and have very little bloat if it is followed by a 50 g carb day. However, if I do two 400-500 g days in a row I will bloat for a week.

On the blood viscosity, absolutely not. I used to donate, but realized it is pointless as I would rebound to the same level or higher within two weeks. Additionally, then you start playing with iron/ferritin issues. After reading the studies on how TRT induced polycythemia/erythrocytosis had no significant effect on thrombosis (there isn't a single study showing it does) unless you have a genetic disposition, I stopped worrying about it until I get to HCT of 58 and hemoglobin of 20. When it gets to that point, I cut out all red meat and foods high in iron, cut out all additional vitamin C, double my dose of citrus bergamot/nattokinaise and take 20 mg of telmisartan a day. It will drop it my HCT below 51 and hemoglobin to 17 in 45-60 days.
 
Thrawn

Thrawn

MuscleHead
Jun 12, 2023
916
481
Yes, isn't that intriguing - sarcasm of course.... How the gov claims to go after overpriced meds but they are the same entity approving said patents extensions. Kind of law how congress passed law that you can't sue over any vaccine but you can file a claim w/ the gov who then decides if you have a claim then give you a 1 time payout. IIRC the highest payout is 1.5 and the ave is 400k and is paid by the US gov, not the pharma company.

I discovered years ago that the FDA has a fast track program in which pharma companies pay to have their wares 'pre-approved' w/ the promise of continued research and clinical trials. Knowing the gov and pharmas history, I give significant pause to anything new being pushed out. Pharma was the #1 lobbying entity for 2019, literally beating out every other group by a significant margin and they are one of the top donating groups for the last few years running.... . Just sayin :rolleyes: It must be coincidental that every other commercial I see on TV is for some pharma drug.

Its funny you mention "normal" ranges as I had that discussion w/ my primary last summer and the doc kept mentioning my total #'s without taking into consideration my free was below clinical's in the 120 range. I threw out some data about pharma, the med industry and the concept of "normal or acceptable" and while she agreed w/ me she refused my current protocol but offered me T.

Its sad that you are running into that issue. A buddy of mine is experiencing the same thing, his #'s are all over the place but his hrt teledoc won't change anything and he's almost 3 hours from the nearest VA. Docs should be in the business of solving the problem to alleviate the symptom but at best, most only know how to treat symptoms.

Thanks! Everyone has different experiences and I hope that this forum along w/ some of the others continue to have members who prop each other up, have conversations about opposing ideas vs knocking others down. Reddit is a shit show full of idiots, try to point out a different idea and its like a feeding frenzy.
If memory and protocol are correct If he's 3 hours away from the closest VA he is in a very ideal situation to pick and choose whatever the fuck he wants.
 
genetic freak

genetic freak

VIP Member
Dec 28, 2015
2,705
3,506
If memory and protocol are correct If he's 3 hours away from the closest VA he is in a very ideal situation to pick and choose whatever the fuck he wants.
This is somewhat true. If you are more than 60 miles away, you have the option to see a local doctor over a doctor at a VA clinic. I used to do it all the time in Nebraska. All you have to do is say that appointment doesn't work for me and they will set you up with someone closer. However, it is not whoever you want. They still have a network of doctors they use that are VA approved.
 
Heady Muscle

Heady Muscle

VIP Member
Oct 13, 2014
751
440
Interesting thread

I ran 200 a week for a few years, tested at 1200 my primary care physcian freaked.

AS time goes on and data comes in things change.

Seems like everyhing else, your results will vary.

Just read an article on longevity, ie, living into 90's to 100 where they monitored folks blood for 30 years.

One thing they said cholesterol seems to be one of the biggest players, along with inflammation.
Do mind sharing that article. It sounds interesting.

My grandpa lived to 102 (Died March of 2020). When Vitamin E hit the market his doctor told him to start taking it. He swore the vitamin e, stretching and exercising each day gave him his longevity. His mind was sharp until his life ending stroke.
 
genetic freak

genetic freak

VIP Member
Dec 28, 2015
2,705
3,506
375mg for the week
I think a lot of us would have similar numbers on 375 mg a week, but I wasn't sure when you posted if that was 125 mg 3x per week or 125 mg total. I have a client in his 50's who was over 1500 total test on just 200 mg a week. I thought he was loading it wrong, so I had him send me a picture of the pin. Nope, it was 100 mg 2x a week just as the doctor prescribed. Most people would say, damn you are a lucky dude. However, he had every side effect that someone who was running 1 g of test would have. TRT doctor told him he could continue to run it at 200 mg, as that is what the doctor was allowed to prescribe. I told him to drop it down to 125 mg a week and we still had to battle hard to get his estrogen down.
 
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T

Trip

VIP Member
Oct 22, 2022
224
197
Man, I am an old F, ypu guys know from gym, and life guys in 20's-40's, it should not surprise me, yet, this stuff is so out of whack compared to our days.

I know the basics are still the same, yet we had protein powder, then some bad pro-hormones, the internet and test.

I guess Katy forgot to bare the door.

What happended to ye old, Test is Best.................................................................period.
 
R

rawdeal

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 29, 2013
4,376
3,587
. . . . I know the basics are still the same, yet we had protein powder, then some bad pro-hormones, the internet and test . . . .
You forgot defecated liver, or whatever that foul tasting shit Gironda was pushing back was, when Ah-nold was young.
 
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genetic freak

genetic freak

VIP Member
Dec 28, 2015
2,705
3,506
You forgot defecated liver, or whatever that foul tasting shit Gironda was pushing back was, when Ah-nold was young.
I guess that stuff is still somewhat used in the UK. They were talking about it on Think Big Bodybuilding.
 
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