Questions about training

[jjpregler]

I have a question to help set up my training. I have spent the past 18 months or so losing almost 100 pounds and now am down to a reasonable size to start building muscle.

So now I am starting my first muscle building cycle. My goal is muscle size primarily - body look first, and strength is a secondary consideration. I am supposing strength will come on it's own with a traditional bodybuilding program, just not as fast as a pure strength building program.

My current split is back/biceps, chest/triceps, rest day, legs, shoulders/abs, two rest days. I have had troubles with my shoulders and this is why I settled into this split. When I move shoulders as far away from chest day, my shoulders do better. If i put them too close together or attempt to work them in the same day, my shoulders get too sore and I have had weeks long of shoulder pain and weakness last year when I first started with a push/pull/legs split.

I am torn between a high intensity program such as Dorian Yates used (which was a modified HIT from the original) or a high volume program. Which is best for my goals? Do they both build mass? Which does it better? Does each individual respond differently to each protocol?

 

[PillarofBalance]

Lifting heavy builds mass. Does not matter what program.

If you put strength secondary you are going to slow your progress though. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that lifting really heavy shit won't get you big and jacked looking. Just Google dan green...

As for your shoulders you should start doing pre hab now before you need rehab. Doing stretches like stick stretch and wall angels will help improve mobility. Face pulls are great for improving posture and preventing impingement. YouTube mobilitywod shoulders and you will see all sorts of ways to improve rom.

Also avoid doing movements that are typically associated with shoulder damage. Never press or pull down behind the neck. Don't do upright rows. When doing side laterals use light weights and let the deltoid do the work. When you bench press tuck the shoulder blades together and down and pull the humerus deep into the shoulder socket. Don't let the rear delt come off the bench.

Nutrition as you know by now is key to making gains as well. Might want to talk to us about what the diet looks like.

 

[BrotherIron]

Don't forget band pull aparts for shoulder prehab.

 

[PillarofBalance]

Don't forget band pull aparts for shoulder prehab.

Yes those to. Ever try doing the dilocators with a band? It's nice day after bench or if you aren't warm yet. Adjust the tension to your liking. I use them to test hip mobility too by doing overhead squats holding the band.

 

[BrotherIron]

Yes those to. Ever try doing the dilocators with a band? It's nice day after bench or if you aren't warm yet. Adjust the tension to your liking. I use them to test hip mobility too by doing overhead squats holding the band.

I do shoulder dislocations with a band from time to time. I also perform goblet squats with a hip circle as part of my warm up for pulls and squats.

 

[Halo]

Concur with POB and BI, do you have a lifting partner or a group that you can lift with? If you have a group in your area it's a great idea to see if you can lift with them. I used to lift heavy but didn't really know what I was doing as far as technique until I found a PL'ng team to train with, it was a game changer for me. I wasted a year waiting, I wish I would have tried earlier. I'm not trying to say you have to compete but it's a great place to start to figure out where you go from here.

 

[jjpregler]

Thank you for your help.

I found this board through twitter links to shoulder stretches for impingement, I think through Rolande Burrage. So I started doing them. I also started looking it up online now that I know there is something I could do for it.

No, I don't have a good training partner. I have to move on from the one I have as he's too negative and doesn't have the same goals I have. He complains all the time and if he is not in a good mood he won't do lifts. In the past two weeks, I've decided an important change to help put on mass was to do the basic lifts more. More squatting, deadlifts, bench presses and military presses. He has been arguing with me about all of these changes as he got comfortable using easier exercises. So I'm going into this week working alone.

I've decided the best way to improve is to challenge myself every day.

 

[JR Ewing]

Not a HIT guy myself, although some swear by it. I tried it for a while early on, but have spent the vast majority of the last 27+ years doing more conventional training, which I find works better for me.

Some things I've observed about myself:

I do better on 4 days a week than 5 or more.

I do better limiting direct work to each bodypart to no more than once a week.

I make slight (not major) changes to my routine every couple of weeks.

I usually keep my weight training time to under 60 minutes each session, and usually do no more than 25-30 total sets (15-20 is more common) in that time - which assures that I don't do too much work at once and don't rest too long between sets. I rest 3, 4, or 5 minutes between heaviest and hardest sets of squats and pulls... a couple of minutes for heavy sets of most other compound exercises... but only a minute or less for less taxing and more isolative work such as laterals, preacher curls, calf raises, etc.

I do 8-15 reps on most sets of most exercises for most bodyparts.

I do 6 or fewer reps on a few sets of a few major exercises every other workout.

I keep reps on rack pulls / deads to 5 or fewer, and doing them no more than twice a month.

I usually do no more than one major bodypart in a workout - either by itself (particularly quads and usually back by themselves), or perhaps one large and one small bodypart, or 2 small bodyparts (such as bis and tris) in the same workout.

I usually do no more than 8-10 sets for a small bodypart like biceps, usually 12-15 sets for larger bodyparts (more for back).

Since I split my upper body into more than one workout, I also split my lower body into 2 workouts.

I tend to cycle poundages and reps schemes somewhat - I alternate heavy and moderate workouts, and don't use bad form or try to go beyond where I know I should. Common sense should prevail.

I stick to mostly free weights. I've had shoulder issues myself, along with a few other minor problems over the years. Stay safe and work to avoid injuries above all else - you can't do much when you're injured.

 

[jjpregler]

JR

Alot of that sounds like what mostly I am doing right now, except, my legs are 1 day. Which at this time, I think will be fine for me, as my legs are ahead of the rest of my body muscularity. I mean they dragged a 320+ pound version of me around for about 20 years before I started lifting.

I don't cycle my poundages yet, but did look into Y3T and other cycling protocols, but again, I have no experience to know if this better than a straight rep/set scheme or not. I was hoping to get information from people who have tried several different things like HIT and volume training in the past. Why do they prefer one over the other? It appears in your answer you have done this and you prefer the traditional volume type workout.

 

[Enasni]

I think most people have gone through quite a few training styles and that way find what works best for them. I've done high volume, hit, linear progression, non-linear progressions, y3t, god there's so many styles really I'm not going to list them all here. What I found was different body parts respond best to different styles. My legs grow with heavy as hell and medium-high volume. Arms respond better to light weight lots of volume, get the pump type stuff. Different back muscles seem to respond best to different things but time under tension has been critical to getting it to grow. This is only for me tho my training partner is pretty much the opposite. Try them. Find what you like, what works, what sucks donkey balls for you personally.

 

[Nerve]

Don't forget band pull aparts for shoulder prehab.

Absolutely. I have bands by my couch/coffee table & just randomly do sets of pull aparts with them.

I think most people have gone through quite a few training styles and that way find what works best for them. I've done high volume, hit, linear progression, non-linear progressions, y3t, god there's so many styles really I'm not going to list them all here. What I found was different body parts respond best to different styles. My legs grow with heavy as hell and medium-high volume. Arms respond better to light weight lots of volume, get the pump type stuff. Different back muscles seem to respond best to different things but time under tension has been critical to getting it to grow. This is only for me tho my training partner is pretty much the opposite. Try them. Find what you like, what works, what sucks donkey balls for you personally.

This too. As you go along & gain experience, you will find what works best for you. Eventually you won't really use any programs you find online; you'll just create your own.

 

[oldschool1967]

5x5, After so many years of endless sets and reps, I found my true love lol. Added more mass than I ever carried in my life.