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Peptides............which ones, how much and why ?

SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,673
2,293
Also from Datbtrue...







Dosages for children and women should probably be determined by weight. So 1mcg/kg is the saturation dose for either GHRH (CJC-1295) and also the GHRPs (GHRP-6, etc)

Unit Conversion:
1kg = 2.2lbs
50kgs = 110lbs
70kgs = 154lbs.
Also with women we are not overly concerned with supporting the night-time pulse...although it is probably a good idea to use the same dosing pattern as I laid out.
 
SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,673
2,293
Way too much to be copying and pasting. If it's alright with the mods, I'll just leave the link here.
 
AWARE72

AWARE72

MuscleHead
Oct 17, 2010
323
18
I am thinking of trying a peptide cycle instead of the usual AAS.

I just know 0 about them. So they work the same as AAS ???
Some for adding LBM and some for cutting ??

What would be a good one to start with and what type of dosing ??

Any first hand advice is appreciated !!!


I think you know my thoughts already...BigTex would be a great resource I believe his log has what his wife been up to for over 2 years with peptides
 
Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,442
648
what SAD copied was from ProMuscle, not DBT...so I think that's ok. But I agree that anyone looking for that info should just join his forum. It's a great forum for peptide info, has to be the best IMO.
 
zackrock

zackrock

Member
Sep 8, 2010
87
6
Seems like there are so many new peptides its confusing as hell.
 
osiris

osiris

Senior Member
May 9, 2011
243
39
they call gh bleed a feminized release pattern because its more akin to the way the females of our species, of which ms. w is one, release gh. They do not experience the same pulses as we do, neither in frequency nor amplitude.

My opinion having had a gf or two take these is that women should start very conservative because there can be prolactin issues. I would find a quality supplier with some cjc1293 and ipamorelin. I would take
50mcg of each 2x a day, both in a fasted state. So upon waking and wait 30 miinutes to eat. For the fat burning efects, do cardio immediately. Take the other dose pre-bed. You dont necessarily have to avoid protein, you have to avoid carbs in particular and fats to ad egree. They both blunt gh release.

You WILL not get gear like effects from peptides in any dose. When i say peptides i am not talking about myostatin inhibitors. I am talking about your grhp's and ghs. You will get an improved quality of life, effects akin to a low dose of synthetic gh(1-2iu) and feel so much better. You will also stay considerably leaner unless you are taking ghrp6 and are luike me and can think the huge box of cereal is really a single serving size.

=-)
 
B

Bilter

VIP Member
Jun 7, 2011
241
317
I posted this on another board last September (how time flies). Hope it helps.

First a basic protocol:
In effort to list a protocol for the use of GHRP / GRF / and in combo with GH if desired I thought I would post my current protocol based upon the research I have done within the last year or so. Obviously the information I gathered is not based on medical studies completed by me but I do use the following protocol myself and have been pretty damed impressed with the results. Recovery from injury is very impressive to me (any kind of injury). Example, 5 days ago I was lifted by the butt of a tree I cut down (long story). I had bruising and some serious raspberry on my under arm, left quad and my abs ( the but of the tree ran right up the front of my once it got under my arm it lifted me and tossed me about 10 feet through the air). Its been 5 days and all that is left of the raspberries are some faint red marks......amazing IMO.

Also: I encourage others to do their own research. Don't think all that I have written below is gospel or the only / best way to run these peptides. This is nothing more than my interpretation of what I have read and what I perceive as the best way to use peptides.

Best Choices for GHRP's.

GHRP-6 Good GH spike when used with a GRF, large increase in hunger. Elevates prolactin and cortisol levels
GHRP-2 Good GH spike, when used with a GRF, on par with GHRP-6 without the hunger. Elevates prolactin and cortisol levels
Ipamorelin good GH spike when used with a GRF. GH spike is not as high as GHRP-2 or 6 but it does not elevate prolactin or cortisol.


Note: in order for a GHRP to have a positive affect and create a GH spike alone one as to be very lucky in the timing and hope it is injected at time when Somatostatin is low in the body. Somatostatin blunts GH release in the presence of just GHRP. Using GRF will override the signal presented by Somatostatin so you will get a very dramatic GH pulse.


GRF's (GHRH)
Two choices

Mod GRF 1-29 (aka CJC 1295 w/o DAC), higher GH peaks, short half life (30 minutes) most closely mimics your bodies own GH pulses but far greater amplitude
CJC 1295 long half life (7days). Lower GH amplitude when used with GHRP, raises the troughs in the bodies GH level profile, the downside is it creates GH bleed. Think of the GH as being stored in a jar until someone (thing) opens up the faucet. It is best if the jar is full and then dumps. CJC does not allow the jar to fill. Current recommendations are to avoid CJC


Saturation dose for any of the GHRH's or GHRP's including Ipamorelin is 100mcg (or 1mcg / kg of bodyweight) so this is all based on a 100mcg dose.

As you may know, it is best to pin 1.5 to 2 hours after eating any fats or carbs and then after you pin don't eat any fats or carbs for 20-30 minutes as they will blunt the GH release. Pure protein is OK but I try to avoid all foods. Also, pure protein is OK anytime prior to pinning.


Dosings should be 3 hours apart or more.

Mornings upon waking pre cardio (if you are doing any), afternoon (or PWO) and before bed pin mod GRF 1-29 / GHRP (or Ipamorelin) @ 100mcg / 100mcg. (2 pinnings per day are also adaquate for improvements in recovery, better sleep etc. 3 will make you a bit more anabolic than 2 and you can even go 4 if the pocket book allows.

If you include GH in this protocol it should be 10 minutes after the peptides. So, first pin the peptides, wait 10-15 minutes and then pin your GH. Reason being is that Exogenous GH administration can also blunt GH release.

Wait 20-30 minutes after pinning the peptides and you are free to eat.

When you recon your peptides use as little BW as you can. I don't go as low as some people because I figure I don't want to leave a drop of highly concentrated peptide in the vial that I can not get out. The less BW used for recon the less the degradation of the peptide over time.

If you premix a shot ahead of time, don't let it sit mixed for more than 8 hours or so. When mixed they will exchange ions and who know what the final compound would be called :). I actually have a way to preload without mixing the peptides until I am ready to pin it.

Do not pin IGF within 1 hour of pinning your peptides. IGF has a feedback loop that inhibits GH release.

With the above for pinning around workouts to get the most of your investment....

Pin insulin (humalin R) immediately PWO
wait 10 minutes pin peptides
If using GH wait 10 more minutes and pin the GH (see above for reasoning)
If using IGF wait approx. 1 hour PWO and pin the IGF.

IGF blunts GH release. another reason to wait is in effort to keep the IGF local you want to wait until you lose your pump. Blood flow is reduced in teh area of injection. if you pin IGF immediately PWO blood flow is still very high so the IGF get transported away too quickly..


For convenience...
Pin insulin Pre work out.... Humalin R is active for 4-5 hours
PWO pin peptides (or if you want to pin slin and peps at the same time PWO)
10 minutes after peps pin GH if you are using GH
30-60 minutes PWO pin IGF if using IGF

This post has been edited by Bilter: Oct 15 2010, 01:05 PM



Here is a very simplified explanation of the process.
I have spent a lot of time over the last 9 months or so trying to understand how GRF / GHRP works in the human body. Given that I do not have any formal schooling in micro-biology I have to turn events into everyday type activities so that I can visualize / understand them.
Many seem confused about why there is a synergistic process that occurs when GRF and GHRP are used together and what role somatostatin plays in the whole GH release picture. Below I will summarize how I visualize the process. It is very simplistic and ignores many of the details of what is going on but it works well in my simple mind and allows me to remember how this stuff actually works.

For this process I picture the pituitary gland as being a hopper with a drain valve located at the bottom. This hopper is filled with marbles that represent GH.

There is a person (somatostatin) sitting at the drain valve. He is in charge of opening and closing this valve. As we age, he has more influence on keeping the valve closed. The hopper is full of GH but Somatostatin will not let anyone open the valve to any great extent. GRF (GHRH endogenously) wants to open the valve but cant. If Somatostatin goes on a break (a period of GH peak) and leaves the valve unattended the GRF can crack open the valve some, say 10%. If somatostatin is present (period of GH trhough) GRF can trick somatostatin into opening the valve fractionally, say 2%. We get some release but the trough is still a trough albeit a little bit higher.
GHRP is like a big brother to GRF. When working alone GHRP can force somatostatin to go on break and open the drain valve to say 80%. We get a good dump of GH whether we are in a trough period OR a peak period.

Now, if we introduce GRF and GHRP TOGETHER, GHRP sends somatostatin away on break so that GHRP and GRF can work together on opening the drain valve. Together they get it to open 120% (I use 120 to demonstrate synergy) and we get a complete dump of the GH hopper.

CJC 1295 is a peptide that tricks somatostatin to leaving the valve cracked causing GH bleed. GH bleed is not the ideal situation because GH receptors in body tissue do not have time to clear.

Keep in mind GRF and GHRP, on a micro level, actually work via different pathways but the above is a good illustration of what functionally is occurring.
 
Spectrum

Spectrum

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2010
126
33
CJC-1295.....I'm NOT a fan of. Causes GH bleed and suppression of your natural bursts. Without DAC, you still maintain the natural burts and they even strengthen over time. Just stay away from CJC-1295 IMO. CJC-1293 or GRF (1-29) is a modified shorter acting version that is better suited for what you're looking to accomplish.

Below from a post I found at ABB apparently, originally, from DatBtrue.
This would seem to indicate that natural bursts (pulses) are actually NOT negatively impacted by baseline elevation caused by CJC-1295...if I'm reading it right.

What was unknown was what effect persistent elevation of GH by a long-lasting GHRH analog would have on the pulsatility of release. This was explored in a follow up study, "Pulsatile Secretion of Growth Hormone (GH) Persists during Continuous Stimulation by CJC-1295, a Long- Acting GH-Releasing Hormone Analog", Madalina Ionescu, et al. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 91(12):4792-4797.

That study found that pulsatility was not interfered with and was in fact preserved in all subjects both immediately after administration and continuing 7 days post-administration.
 
osiris

osiris

Senior Member
May 9, 2011
243
39
Below from a post I found at ABB apparently, originally, from DatBtrue.
This would seem to indicate that natural bursts (pulses) are actually NOT negatively impacted by baseline elevation caused by CJC-1295...if I'm reading it right.
The problem is that the elevated baseline means that the body is 'bleeding' which is not an appropriate term imo the gh that the pituitary is manufacturing. This is not necessarily a bad thing depending on your goals at all. It is considered a more feminized release pattern but does not mimic the large growth spurts that we go through as children.

I have taken cjc1295 w/dac years ago and tthere was no doubt in my mind that it works for quality of life enhancement and bodyfat reduction. My opinion at that time was that you would be unable to dose 1295 w/dac in such a way that would cause grwoth like high doses of the other GHS would.I am simplifying here but i think it makes sense.
 
Spectrum

Spectrum

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2010
126
33
So if ones goals were bf reduction, anti aging, and general quality of life improvement ie. the types of benefits traditionally associated with low/moderate (2-4 iu) use of Gh, then cjc1295 alone could/would be appropriate or beneficial ? Frankly, I have other "products" that I plan to use for strength & mass gains - I just happen to also have a stash of cjc1295 and I'm trying to decide whether running it without some type of GHRP would make any sense or be wise.
 
osiris

osiris

Senior Member
May 9, 2011
243
39
So if ones goals were bf reduction, anti aging, and general quality of life improvement ie. the types of benefits traditionally associated with low/moderate (2-4 iu) use of Gh, then cjc1295 alone could/would be appropriate or beneficial ? Frankly, I have other "products" that I plan to use for strength & mass gains - I just happen to also have a stash of cjc1295 and I'm trying to decide whether running it without some type of GHRP would make any sense or be wise.

You would want to run a ghrp along with it. The ghrp's really cause the pulse while the ghs increases the amplitude of the pulse. If you could guarantee the exact time of your pulses then you could consider adding in the cjc alone. I have run ghrp's both with and without a cjc and the results were stillf avorable. I do not believe you will be very satisfied with the results of the cjc alone. In fact i would go with just saying that even running like 50mcg of ghrp with a decent dose(150mcg) of a cjc would make you a happy man in the fat loss arena.

This is all just opinion and what i have seen from playing around with these peptides myself.
 
Spectrum

Spectrum

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2010
126
33
You would want to run a ghrp along with it. The ghrp's really cause the pulse while the ghs increases the amplitude of the pulse. If you could guarantee the exact time of your pulses then you could consider adding in the cjc alone. I have run ghrp's both with and without a cjc and the results were stillf avorable. I do not believe you will be very satisfied with the results of the cjc alone. In fact i would go with just saying that even running like 50mcg of ghrp with a decent dose(150mcg) of a cjc would make you a happy man in the fat loss arena.

This is all just opinion and what i have seen from playing around with these peptides myself.
Allright, thx for your input. I'll continue to read up on the various ghrp's and plan to run one of them with my cjc1295 when the time comes.

Ipamorelin looks interesting - any downside to it other than the SLIGHT decrease in spike compared to GHRP-6 or GHRP-2 ? Seems to me like elevated cortisol and prolactin are a potentially significant trade off for a slightly elevated pulse with the latter two.
 
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