Overtraining or myth?

[oldschool1967]

when I was a 'bodybuilder' , ad-hearing to the 2xs a bodypart per week, 6 days per week, I went through a very nasty divorce and realized i worked out 30 days straight. my gains?? nothing, nada, ziltch.Overtraining, no matter what your goal, is no myth!

 

[J-dub]

I fully understand what he's trying to say.

I happen to disagree with his assertion that bbers can't/don't reach CNS fatigue or are not subject to the ails of overtraining.

It can happen even with sub maximal weights, the conditions just vary.

IMHO. Again, not a bodybuilder so their protocols don't interest nor apply to me.

Fair enough

 

[big_paul_ski]

I think we all stand by what we said. BBers using machine to lift a weight which is a push/pull motion that doesn't stress the body nearly as a bar with plates on it. It fact it's the lazy way of lifting. Let me work my back while I sit on my ass or work my legs while I'm sitting down. You're right, that would stress the shit outta my CNS, lol.

Bold statement. To say bodybuilders sit on there asses using machines is rediculas and not true at all. I could say power lifters are lazy and use the excuse if being a power lifter to be a fat ass. You don't think bodybuilders do the bench squat at dead lift? I know plenty if bodybuilders that would prolly crush you in the gym bro. I'm sorry but this post you made was ignorant. I'm sorry but bodybuilding is a tougher all around sport that takes serios discipline. It's not who can eat the most cheeseburgers.

 

[Rottenrogue]

Are we really gonna have a bb vs pl argument ?different goals for both. Respect for both sides IMO. I'm sure diet has alot to do with frying ones Cns in bb. No way could I do it nor do I desire to.
Slamming on one another isn't the route to go though

 

[J-dub]

It's not who can eat the most cheeseburgers.

**** I wish it was, I'd be a pro for sure! I have literally eaten a cheeseburger on a bench before so guilty as charged I guess... lol.

 

[big_paul_ski]

**** I wish it was, I'd be a pro for sure! I have literally eaten a cheeseburger on a bench before so guilty as charged I guess... lol.

Thanks for that lol. We needed a laugh in here!!

 

[RageBlanket]

Bold statement. To say bodybuilders sit on there asses using machines is rediculas and not true at all. I could say power lifters are lazy and use the excuse if being a power lifter to be a fat ass. You don't think bodybuilders do the bench squat at dead lift? I know plenty if bodybuilders that would prolly crush you in the gym bro. I'm sorry but this post you made was ignorant. I'm sorry but bodybuilding is a tougher all around sport that takes serios discipline. It's not who can eat the most cheeseburgers.

Ummm...why you gotta single me out?

And I prefer peanut butter on my burgers vs cheese. IIFYM or something.

 

[GiantSlayer]

I am a BBer and I know very little about PLing.

That being said, I go to failure on every exercise every day. (not every set but every exercise)
I start with bench on chest days
I start with squats on quad days
I used to start with deads on back days (nursing an injury)

After I get every last rep then I move to machines and keep the pain coming.
I don't walk out of the gym knowing that I could have done another set.

From what I know about PLing, you guys would never do this. This type of overload would destroy your totals.
But don't tell me I know nothing about CNS fatigue.

 

[J-dub]

I am a BBer and I know very little about PLing.

That being said, I go to failure on every exercise every day. (not every set but every exercise)
I start with bench on chest days
I start with squats on quad days
I used to start with deads on back days (nursing an injury)

After I get every last rep then I move to machines and keep the pain coming.
I don't walk out of the gym knowing that I could have done another set.

From what I know about PLing, you guys would never do this. This type of overload would destroy your totals.
But don't tell me I know nothing about CNS fatigue.

With all due respect I think you might be confusing muscle failure with CNS failure. Your CNS functions by sending electrical impulses through your nerves to the designated motor unit. That signal cannot be sustained for long periods of time with speed and power for the optimum frequency. Through continuous signals sodium, potassium and other substrate concentrations decrease to the point where contractions become slower and weaker. Eventually a state of inhibition is reached to prevent itself from further stimuli. Hence when you seem to lose all strength and drop the weight in pure exhaustion. If you actually trained to your max instead of failure each time you trained like you stated above you would set your nerve cells into a constant state of inhibition leading you to tax the CNS far to much through the increased out put of electrical impulses. This will lead to rapid overtraining. That leads to time off and bodily and mental states lacking motivation, appetite, etc. When that happens it's not always muscular failure which is occurring; more CNS failure, which means that your muscles are not being worked anyway so stimuli for growth is not being achieved every time you train. If you are benching for sets of 10, 8, 6 or whatever you are not taxing your CNS you are simply reaching muscle fatigue.

 

[GiantSlayer]

With all due respect I think you might be confusing muscle failure with CNS failure. Your CNS functions by sending electrical impulses through your nerves to the designated motor unit. That signal cannot be sustained for long periods of time with speed and power for the optimum frequency. Through continuous signals sodium, potassium and other substrate concentrations decrease to the point where contractions become slower and weaker. Eventually a state of inhibition is reached to prevent itself from further stimuli. Hence when you seem to lose all strength and drop the weight in pure exhaustion. If you actually trained to your max instead of failure each time you trained like you stated above you would set your nerve cells into a constant state of inhibition leading you to tax the CNS far to much through the increased out put of electrical impulses. This will lead to rapid overtraining. That leads to time off and bodily and mental states lacking motivation, appetite, etc. When that happens it's not always muscular failure which is occurring; more CNS failure, which means that your muscles are not being worked anyway so stimuli for growth is not being achieved every time you train. If you are benching for sets of 10, 8, 6 or whatever you are not taxing your CNS you are simply reaching muscle fatigue.

Thank you, that was a very well thought out reply. I would argue that consistent muscle fatigue, especially in the larger bodyparts, leads to CNS fatigue. For me that means headaches, cold sweats, trembling, reduced appetite, cramps, and even bowl symptoms.

I have no way to prove that CNS fatigue is causing this. I just know when I have gone too far. Still, with enough juice and good sleep this shouldn't even happen to me. Its not a perfect world.

 

[PillarofBalance]

this board is all powerlifters so im not going to argue. lets see your pics???? how much body fat you holding. HAHAHA shit if i was a guy and 300 lbs 30% bodyfat i can squat 500lbs to. whatever makes your big boy ego bigger. i dont care how much i lift i care about how ****ING GOOD I LOOK. I see no pics only numbers. and the pics i see i bet are 20 years old. my comment was not on over training but that BB can strain there CNS as well.

I hope this wasn't meant for me TG. I try to give you thought out responses void of any kind of hostility for whichever iron sport we chose (or has chosen us).

I am not 30% bodyfat, probably more like 20 to 25% and I weigh just under 260. I've posted a pic a couple months ago probably in my log. I can pm it to you if you'd like. But I don't care what my BF percentage is. Also, a 20 year old pic of me would put me at 12 years old

But to say I see no pics only numbers makes no sense in a PL's mind. We don't care about pics, only numbers.

I still stand by what I said. To fatigue the CNS as a bodybuilder it would take a ridiculous amount of training that likely very few humans could withstand. Deloads are still necessary. I did the BB thing and in fact would deload more frequently then compared to now.

 

[PillarofBalance]

Thank you, that was a very well thought out reply. I would argue that consistent muscle fatigue, especially in the larger bodyparts, leads to CNS fatigue. For me that means headaches, cold sweats, trembling, reduced appetite, cramps, and even bowl symptoms.

I have no way to prove that CNS fatigue is causing this. I just know when I have gone too far. Still, with enough juice and good sleep this shouldn't even happen to me. Its not a perfect world.

You're a damn machine bro!