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Oral Cycle Recommendations

HDH

HDH

TID Board Of Directors
Sep 30, 2011
1,954
729
#25
Yea, I have more than once had my balls busted over posting pics. A lot of people think it is for a different reason than what it is. In the end, most advice has to be framed with some contest. I fully realize that a lot of guys would say I am 'tiny' and others may say that would be a place that represents their goals.

I cant tell you the amount of times I have seen conflicting information posted about diet and training, and the guy posting is does not even look like they train.

@HDH, I really have no idea what it would take for me to put on more size. I gave up about 4 years ago. I tried every manipulation of diet I could, even with a 600mg test cycle (most I have ever done) , and it just was not happening for me. I came to the conclusion that it would take probably more than I am willing to do. (which I am OK with).

The biggest thing is we all have different goals. I respect them. I totally respect a powerlifter who wants to stay at 275 and 20%+bf. I get it.

So if I came off wrong, I will be the first to apologize. This is one of the very few places where I will do all I can to not argue with people. Especially vets as they have earned a place here. Truth is, I still feel like a newb in many ways, and so many of the good brothers have gone out of their way to help me in the process.

The coolest thing is that when I first came here, they listened to what I wanted to do and really gave me fantastic advice which is still much of what I have adopted today. There surly is not one blanket response for every question.

One thing I have come to know very well, is that quite a few people, even some guys who have been around a while, dont understand how important the food equation is. That alone is probably the single point of advice I give out the most often since it applies to so many. Natural, or AAS user, learning to eat for your goals is one of the most powerful tools we have. And one where so many people seem to fail.
I think you may put too much on being big. If there's no reason it's actually healthier not to be a heavyweight. You look good man. If you want to get bigger though, I don't think it would take a whole lot.

The way you retain your muscle on almost minimal doses, I believe you would respond well to a higher aas dose. Around a gram to gram and a half a week with test and something mild like deca or not mild like tren at 200 to 300mg a week, a minimal hgh dose and eat heavier than your used to.

I was never really concerned with being huge. Now that I'm older, I call myself 50ish, I would like to take a run at competing. After all these years I'm wanting to get big. I don't have a bodybuilder's waist so I'm working on upper body for the waist illusion. I don't like the look when I cut down. Hell, I figure the older I get the better chance I have , lol.
 
macgyver

macgyver

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 24, 2011
1,599
1,003
#26
I think you may put too much on being big. .

I only say that because on the interwebz people can very easily misunderstand intent. If I put up a pic, I feel the need to quantify that I know there are guys WAY bigger and more developed out there. Some people are so dellusional that they cant be objective about their physiques.

Like the 140lb guy posting all kinds of pics of his 'ab' shots ;). Definitely dont want to be 'that guy!

Truth is, I only go from time to time wondering what it would be like. You dont spend this long training only to wake up one day and be satisfied. I think we all do this because we are our own worst critics.

The last 2 years I have really had to refocus. My back injury has not got all that much better. Prior to it, my back was bullet proof. I was convinced I would still be pulling 600lbs till I was 60. But things just are not right and I cant train like I want.

I have not fully figured out what my path will be. I wont quit, but I have not been enjoying working out the past 2 years. It is just something I have to do now. Sucks because it is the training that I always loved. There are so many people worse off than I so I am not complaining too much. Life is taking a larger balance for me. I think I am just focusing on being 'fit'. I am still finding my way...but I am not quitting just yet ;)

Thanks for the props. I came here almost 10 years ago and still remember the advice I got. A bunch of those guys were the age I am now and it gave me tons of inspiration. I try to 'give back' when I can. But I certainly dont mind alternative viewpoints and 100% know that there are many paths to success in this game.
 
HDH

HDH

TID Board Of Directors
Sep 30, 2011
1,954
729
#27
I only say that because on the interwebz people can very easily misunderstand intent. If I put up a pic, I feel the need to quantify that I know there are guys WAY bigger and more developed out there. Some people are so dellusional that they cant be objective about their physiques.

Like the 140lb guy posting all kinds of pics of his 'ab' shots ;). Definitely dont want to be 'that guy!

Truth is, I only go from time to time wondering what it would be like. You dont spend this long training only to wake up one day and be satisfied. I think we all do this because we are our own worst critics.

The last 2 years I have really had to refocus. My back injury has not got all that much better. Prior to it, my back was bullet proof. I was convinced I would still be pulling 600lbs till I was 60. But things just are not right and I cant train like I want.

I have not fully figured out what my path will be. I wont quit, but I have not been enjoying working out the past 2 years. It is just something I have to do now. Sucks because it is the training that I always loved. There are so many people worse off than I so I am not complaining too much. Life is taking a larger balance for me. I think I am just focusing on being 'fit'. I am still finding my way...but I am not quitting just yet ;)

Thanks for the props. I came here almost 10 years ago and still remember the advice I got. A bunch of those guys were the age I am now and it gave me tons of inspiration. I try to 'give back' when I can. But I certainly dont mind alternative viewpoints and 100% know that there are many paths to success in this game.
Yes, I am the same. I don't believe I will really ever be satisfied. Sounds to me like you need some fresh material. Maybe shake things up and try some new training programs. I initially had to switch up routines because of back issues. I wasn't suppose to squat or deadlift anymore so I started going light and supersetting deads and squats with volume. Shoulders were next on the list. I was having entirely too many problems.

Over a few years I switched up the entire routine. I don't do anything heavy but still grow. I have learned that all the muscle needs is to be tore down properly. Perhaps trying some different routines might light a spark. I don't like training if I feel like I'm just going through the motions.
 
Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,442
644
#28
gaining weight without adding fat and losing fat while keeping all of your muscle gains are 2 things that people don’t understand are basically impossible (at least absent a very long time frame with ridiculous dedication). Start with a small goal and go from there. Just know that you’ll likely have to gain more weight than your end goal and then cut some fat to get to where you want to end up. This is common sense for a lot of us who have been around the block but it’s worth repeating ;)
 
SAD

SAD

TID Board Of Directors
Feb 3, 2011
3,229
1,463
#29
gaining weight without adding fat and losing fat while keeping all of your muscle gains are 2 things that people don’t understand are basically impossible (at least absent a very long time frame with ridiculous dedication). Start with a small goal and go from there. Just know that you’ll likely have to gain more weight than your end goal and then cut some fat to get to where you want to end up. This is common sense for a lot of us who have been around the block but it’s worth repeating ;)
Holy fuck. Holy shit. Is it? Could it be?

Good to see your name pop up without an archive next to it.
 
W

Wilson6

Member
Dec 17, 2019
48
57
#30
Well I’m 25 been training for around 6 years 178 cm started at 58kg worked my way up to 72kgs natural over a couple of years then hit a plateau. I decided well if you want to give your body a boost start off with a beginner cycle (test- prop tren mastron) (I prefer the lean bulk and hold the weight) Not fast and then lose it. Sitting at 82-85 Before lockdown. As I’m not the most experienced admitted.
Haven’t had the best experiences from injections, excuse my language but when you do it yourself without a lot of experience you fuck it up. Hit my sciatica a few times, had the oil collate.
I know orals are damaging on the liver.
Like I said just a few recommendations. You guys are more experienced so open to suggestions and recommendations. Still newish to it only Done around 5 cycles
As long as you're not injecting large volumes, sub-Q (shallow IM as I call it, 1/2" pin) is much easier and safer with regards to several potential deep IM issues. At the very least moderate doses of sc inj will reduce the need for chronic oral dosing, esp higher doses. Long term use of harsh C-17 drugs is really asking for HC down the road and you may not know it from labs. Also ditto what all the vets are saying about diet, training, etc. That should be the focus at a young age, not what cycle to use. Be smart, don't f it up at a young age, because the sins of your past will haunt you when you're older.
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
1,132
261
#31
Yes, I am the same. I don't believe I will really ever be satisfied. Sounds to me like you need some fresh material. Maybe shake things up and try some new training programs. I initially had to switch up routines because of back issues. I wasn't suppose to squat or deadlift anymore so I started going light and supersetting deads and squats with volume. Shoulders were next on the list. I was having entirely too many problems.

Over a few years I switched up the entire routine. I don't do anything heavy but still grow. I have learned that all the muscle needs is to be tore down properly. Perhaps trying some different routines might light a spark. I don't like training if I feel like I'm just going through the motions.
Hey bro, would u mind shooten me a PM on your deads and squats routine?...I guess I'm gonna have to do this too!...Still not convinced it will work for me...But if u are making gains by not going heavy, it would be greatly appreciated, no doubt!...Give me exactly what u do for rep scheme and set scheme...I will adjust if necessary!...

.
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
1,132
261
#32
As long as you're not injecting large volumes, sub-Q (shallow IM as I call it, 1/2" pin) is much easier and safer with regards to several potential deep IM issues. At the very least moderate doses of sc inj will reduce the need for chronic oral dosing, esp higher doses. Long term use of harsh C-17 drugs is really asking for HC down the road and you may not know it from labs. Also ditto what all the vets are saying about diet, training, etc. That should be the focus at a young age, not what cycle to use. Be smart, don't f it up at a young age, because the sins of your past will haunt you when you're older.

What would u consider to be "harsh" long term use on the C-17s?....What would be reasonable use on those?...Your last sentence rang a bell in my world!...U couldn't be any more right!...Hopefully, he will listen...

.
 
W

Wilson6

Member
Dec 17, 2019
48
57
#33
What would u consider to be "harsh" long term use on the C-17s?....What would be reasonable use on those?...Your last sentence rang a bell in my world!...U couldn't be any more right!...Hopefully, he will listen...

.
I think the toxicity and risk of liver cancer like everything else is genetic. There was one case report a few years back where a pro was using 300 mg total of orals for about 3 years if I remember correctly. Ended up with hepatocellular carcinoma, his LFTs were not really elevated either. Other case reports of lower doses intermittently also resulting in HC. The general rule is off for as long as you were on, watch your labs esp for cholestasis. A liver US yearly if you are a regular oral user is never a bad idea. Most of the androgen induced HC is reversible if caught early, but not always. Peliosis hepatis is another one that can be life threatening. One case of cholestasis the guy was only taken Winny-V 50 mg 3x/wk for about 8 weeks and he blew up. You never know.
 
W

Wilson6

Member
Dec 17, 2019
48
57
#34
Hey bro, would u mind shooten me a PM on your deads and squats routine?...I guess I'm gonna have to do this too!...Still not convinced it will work for me...But if u are making gains by not going heavy, it would be greatly appreciated, no doubt!...Give me exactly what u do for rep scheme and set scheme...I will adjust if necessary!...

.
Look up Brad Schoenfeld's work. Heavy loads are needed for strength, but not always necessary for hypertrophy. Here is one of many of his publications. https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/..._Hypertrophy_Adaptations_Between_Low_.31.aspx
 
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