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Nolvadex to prevent d-bol bloat?

KBD

KBD

I Look Good...
Sep 13, 2010
2,312
107
#13
In theory It's very possible that nolva was blocking effects of estrogen which promotes subcutaneous fat, fat stored just under the skin . I'm not completely convinced of it's affects being all that great for this purpose yet but some think it works. Then you have to consider it's negative effects on GH as well.
That IGF bullshit theory? Idk man, i really dont know if i believe that. I think that stemmed from people losing water retention while using Nolva, and figured it to be losing muscle lol.
 
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SHINE

Friends Remembered
Oct 11, 2010
5,047
601
#14
That IGF bullshit theory? Idk man, i really dont know if i believe that. I think that stemmed from people losing water retention while using Nolva, and figured it to be losing muscle lol.
lol now there's plenty of research showing nolva lowering IGF by quite a bit however aas like tren or nandrolone and others increase it by quite a bit, So I'm guesing there is plenty of IGF circulating for over all growth. However not only does tamoxifen suppress GH, it also directly suppresses IGF-1 gene expression independently of any lowering of GH

It's hard to say how much nolva is affecting this without detailed blood work for each individual

In vivo inhibition of insulin-like growth factor I gene expression by tamoxifen.

Huynh HT, Tetenes E, Wallace L, Pollak M.

Department of Medicine, McGill University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

Tamoxifen, a partial antagonist to the estrogen receptor, is widely used in the treatment of breast cancer and is currently being evaluated as a breast cancer preventative agent in large-scale clinical trials. Recent clinical research has demonstrated that tamoxifen administration is associated with a reduction of serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) concentration. We demonstrate here that tamoxifen, when administered in an in vivo experimental system previously used to demonstrate its cytostatic effect on breast cancer cell proliferation, inhibits the expression of the IGF-I gene in common target organs for breast cancer metastasis. Furthermore, while our prior experimental studies have demonstrated an inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on growth hormone output, we show here for the first time that the suppression of IGF-I gene expression associated with tamoxifen administration is in part a consequence of a pituitary-independent action of the drug. Because IGF-I is a potent mitogen for breast cancer cells, this newly described activity of tamoxifen may contribute to its antineoplastic properties, particularly with regard to inhibition of metastasis seen both in animal models and clinically.
 
KBD

KBD

I Look Good...
Sep 13, 2010
2,312
107
#15
lol now there's plenty of research showing nolva lowering IGF by quite a bit however aas like tren or nandrolone and others increase it by quite a bit, So I'm guesing there is plenty of IGF circulating for over all growth. However not only does tamoxifen suppress GH, it also directly suppresses IGF-1 gene expression independently of any lowering of GH


It's hard to say how much nolva is affecting this without detailed blood work for each individual

In vivo inhibition of insulin-like growth factor I gene expression by tamoxifen.

Huynh HT, Tetenes E, Wallace L, Pollak M.

Department of Medicine, McGill University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

Tamoxifen, a partial antagonist to the estrogen receptor, is widely used in the treatment of breast cancer and is currently being evaluated as a breast cancer preventative agent in large-scale clinical trials. Recent clinical research has demonstrated that tamoxifen administration is associated with a reduction of serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) concentration. We demonstrate here that tamoxifen, when administered in an in vivo experimental system previously used to demonstrate its cytostatic effect on breast cancer cell proliferation, inhibits the expression of the IGF-I gene in common target organs for breast cancer metastasis. Furthermore, while our prior experimental studies have demonstrated an inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on growth hormone output, we show here for the first time that the suppression of IGF-I gene expression associated with tamoxifen administration is in part a consequence of a pituitary-independent action of the drug. Because IGF-I is a potent mitogen for breast cancer cells, this newly described activity of tamoxifen may contribute to its antineoplastic properties, particularly with regard to inhibition of metastasis seen both in animal models and clinically.
Well if its lowering IGF i dont notice it because im running GH as it is anyways.
 
gentao

gentao

MuscleHead
May 16, 2011
326
23
#17
I was wondering if I could use Nolvadex to prevent d-bol bloat? I don't have the money for arimdex and was wondering if I could Nolvadex to cut back on the bloating. I'm using 25-30mg ed for 4-6 weeks. I'm also running 30mg anavar for those 6 weeks. Should I worry about d-bol bloat since I'm using anavar to? Will Nolvadex hinder my gains very much? How much should I take?
this exact question word for word was on elitefitness back in 02
 
B

BikerTrash

Rottens cookie dealer
Mar 19, 2011
269
51
#18
If he keeps a clean diet and watches sodium intake would that help with the bloat at all?
Agreed !!!! ..Drink ashit ton of water and keep your diet clean and you shouldnt suffer bloat from 30mg of Dbol .
And I believe in dont take any AI's unless absolutly needed due to the hindering of gains but if you need something I would suggest anastrozole as the others have already suggested .
 
Brodel154

Brodel154

MuscleHead
Jul 3, 2011
277
114
#21
And watch you're youre lipids too while taking AI's. They will throw your good cholesterol (hdl) in the shitter, and raise your LDL. Especially letro. Had bloodwork done last time I took letro and I couldn't believe the numbers.

I try and avoid them all together now. Aromasin is the only one I believe that won't affect your lipid levels. I'm pretty I've read a study where it actually improved lipids. I'll see if I can find it.
 
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
#22
Nolva did exactly jack shit for my bloat from dbol. It helped with preventing gyno, but I still had all that estrogen circulating in my body. Nolva mainly binds to breast tissue and doesnt do much for anywhere else. That is why it is used for treatment of breast cancer. If it works for you guys then that is cool, but I dont really see how. Adex or aromasin are the only things that help me with bloat, and letro to treat existing gyno.
==========================================================================
Some very important yet simplistic distinctions should be made between AIs and SERMs.

1) It's well established the SERMS, Relofen, Tamoxifen and Clomiphere exhibit differing effects (agonists, antagonists) based upon not only their chemical structure but also the TISSUE itself. Thus while one SERM may have agonist uterine effects and antagonistic peripheral effects, the results from another SERM may be the antithesis.

Similarly considerable variation exists between individuals especially at lower dosages. For this reason some people may develop a worsening of bloat" with Tamoxifen especially when higher doses are used.

With that being said what is really important to realize, SERMs are most effective for the treatment of LOCAL E-2 "complications" such as; gynecomastia and PCT, because the amount of tissue binding required to effect change is relatively small.

However AIs are better suited for SYSTEMIC E-2 complication like; bloat, because the amount of tissue involved is quite large! (Bloat is primarily the consequence of an elevated E-2 which causes a relative ADH increase in addition to enhanced capillary permeability)

Ergo while some notice an improvement of Bloat with SERM therapy others may NOT. Alternatively the overwhelming majority of mates using AIs for bloat will notice considerable benefit.

So if "BLOAT" is the AAS complication your wanting to treat an AI would be considered first line therapy, IMO. I prefer Anastrozole for a variety of reasons, including lipid changes, half life, efficacy, cost (about a 50c / pill at Costco)

Regs
jim
 
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