Newbie Sub Q injections/sides question.

[Rykertest]

I may be putting the cart before the horse as I’m not on TRT. However, a recent blood test show pretty low free t so I assume my new TRT dr will prescribe this, but if not I still want the knowledge

. As I’m researching and trying to learn about TRT, I see a lot of discussion about side effects and how to reduce/control them. I also see a lot of comments about sub q vs IM, once weekly vs eod/daily, etc.

Am I correct in that doing multiple injections per week, combined with sub q injections is a good way to smooth out the dose effect and greatly control sides? The whole hematocrit issue especially is one I would love to avoid. I have no intention of doing anything other than therapeutic doses.

Am I correct in that test C and E are the two most common forms, At least in the US, and that they are actually not designed to be used as Sub q? If that’s accurate, why is sub q so popular?

thanks in advance for your assistance.

 

[beefnewton]

Subcutaneous is popular because it's easy. I did SC for a little over ten years but got tired of the lumps so switched to IM. With IM, I actually do site prep. With SC, I pulled out a syringe and jabbed it. You aren't going to be able to avoid the hematocrit issue, I don't think. If you're prone to it, it'll happen regardless... at least it has for me. I'm kind of an odd one out. I do daily injections.. IM even. I also prefer shorter esters (Prop in this case) because I feel like it helps get me closer to that natural rhythm. That statement may be better suited for the bro-logic thread, though.

 

[Rykertest]

Subcutaneous is popular because it's easy. I did SC for a little over ten years but got tired of the lumps so switched to IM. With IM, I actually do site prep. With SC, I pulled out a syringe and jabbed it. You aren't going to be able to avoid the hematocrit issue, I don't think. If you're prone to it, it'll happen regardless... at least it has for me. I'm kind of an odd one out. I do daily injections.. IM even. I also prefer shorter esters (Prop in this case) because I feel like it helps get me closer to that natural rhythm. That statement may be better suited for the bro-logic thread, though.

When you mentioned the “lumps” with sub q, was this permanent? I did read that the daily or eod injections did mimic the natural rhythm more and I would assume that’s better, as to the science behind why, I don’t know. Is prop “designed” for subq where C and E are not? Thanks for the reply.

 

[beefnewton]

The lumps are temporary and don't always happen, but they seemed to get way worse as I got leaner. The lumps would vary in duration.. sometimes a few days and sometimes upwards of a week. I never could figure them out. I think all of these oils were only ever intended to be IM. Even aqueous Test Base was probably intended to be IM (I forgot what it's called). It's just over the years, people have figured out they can actually inject subcutaneously and get the same benefits. I think Dr. Crisler popularized subcutaneous injections. I think starting out, twice weekly Test C/E injections would be fine, but your dose changes will have to be very methodical. Because of the longer half-lives, it will take quite a bit of time before you level off for every increase/decrease. Then you can get labs and reassess, but you also have to be really subjective and evaluate you how you actually feel for those given numbers. It took me a few years to finally get everything narrowed down... and then the tricky part is over a long period of time, either because I've actually needed to increase due to increased muscle or I developed some kind of resistance, I have had to increase my dose a few times. You'll be chasing your tail to some degree the rest of your life.

 

[Rykertest]

The lumps are temporary and don't always happen, but they seemed to get way worse as I got leaner. The lumps would vary in duration.. sometimes a few days and sometimes upwards of a week. I never could figure them out. I think all of these oils were only ever intended to be IM. Even aqueous Test Base was probably intended to be IM (I forgot what it's called). It's just over the years, people have figured out they can actually inject subcutaneously and get the same benefits. I think Dr. Crisler popularized subcutaneous injections. I think starting out, twice weekly Test C/E injections would be fine, but your dose changes will have to be very methodical. Because of the longer half-lives, it will take quite a bit of time before you level off for every increase/decrease. Then you can get labs and reassess, but you also have to be really subjective and evaluate you how you actually feel for those given numbers. It took me a few years to finally get everything narrowed down... and then the tricky part is over a long period of time, either because I've actually needed to increase due to increased muscle or I developed some kind of resistance, I have had to increase my dose a few times. You'll be chasing your tail to some degree the rest of your life.

Great reply, thanks for the detail. I know a fair number of guys who got on TRT and it’s how I ended up at this clinic. They all just did what the Dr said and quite a few dealt with sides early on. Headaches and higher than desired BP, and they all just do one IM a week. bloodwork showed too high levels and they had to make adjustments. I’d rather avoid that or reduce as much as I can if possible. I feel arrogant even questioning the Dr because I don’t know Jack but it seems a better course of action to go lower and slower to build smoothly than just dump a whole syringe in, then realize you‘re way too high and have to back off.

I recognize this is a permanent commitment by all intents and purposes so I’d rather ease into it than have to slam The brakes and reverse course.

is This viewpoint ignorant or is there any merit?

 

[beefnewton]

Not at all. I think that approach is very prudent and unfortunately not shared by the majority. Most people and clinics take too much a cookie cutter approach, and starting out on 200mg/week is just not a good idea in my opinion. You gotta find that level where it works with the body rather than overpowers it. Your natural production will still dry up, but easing into it with an honest self-assessment of "hey, I feel good.. but not too good" will leave you way better off in the long term.

 

[Rykertest]

Not at all. I think that approach is very prudent and unfortunately not shared by the majority. Most people and clinics take too much a cookie cutter approach, and starting out on 200mg/week is just not a good idea in my opinion. You gotta find that level where it works with the body rather than overpowers it. Your natural production will still dry up, but easing into it with an honest self-assessment of "hey, I feel good.. but not too good" will leave you way better off in the long term.

Good to hear. Thank you.

 

[ceo]

Don't feel arrogant questioning any doctor. They dont know everything, and it is your body and health...not theirs.

A good doc will welcome any honest questions and will answer them best he can to make you feel satisfied.

If a doc is an asshole to you and tries to make you feel stupid for having concerns and asking questions about your health, walk out. Take your business elsewhere.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[Kluso]

Sorry to hijack but this may help you as well. Does taking long ester test (testE or C) subQ Change its half life? Or can you still take it twice a week? Just curious. My thought is that it would be shorter due to it not sitting in a muscle.