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Making HCG 5000iu last for 10wk cycle?

Mike Singletary

Mike Singletary

Member
Sep 8, 2010
92
29
#1
So I am trying to prepare things for my cycle which will be 10 weeks. I plan on taking around 250iu twice a week. But as I understand once you mix the HCG with BW it is only good for 30 days refrigerated? Is there any way around this to get it to last the whole cycle? Any info appreciated. Thanks!
 
ItalianMuscle

ItalianMuscle

Drama Queen senior Vip
Sep 1, 2010
2,396
726
#2
Why not get 1500iu or 2000iu amps? Problem solved..
 
ketsugo

ketsugo

MuscleHead
Sep 10, 2011
2,585
446
#3
I say no worry . I never use during cycle . I have used a ton near end thinking to get things going so to speak . However past 3 use none , so much for saying as old dudes need more " help down there" . Personally I've seen so many approaches that people swear by but I've recently decided they aren't really needed. I also use tren deca cycle after cycle not once have I used prami or caber. Throughout my cycles I keep a strong anti e like arimodex on hand as well as tamoxifen as supposedly it's site specific .y cycles never go beyond 20 week and rest between minimum 7 . Unless you notice a really pronounced issue downstairs you worry too much . Save the 5000 do at end before PCT
 
Bionixx

Bionixx

MuscleHead
Dec 6, 2011
326
9
#4
First thing reconstituted HCG is stable for 60+day refrigerated and probably 90day is you use NaCl Saline Soln. BW. I wouldn't reconstitute is till week 4-6 so you'll have some after last shot and before PCT. 250iu 2x week(preferably 2 consecutive days is best) and 500iu 2x wk after last shot is NICE!!!!!!
 
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
#5
So I am trying to prepare things for my cycle which will be 10 weeks. I plan on taking around 250iu twice a week. But as I understand once you mix the HCG with BW it is only good for 30 days refrigerated? Is there any way around this to get it to last the whole cycle? Any info appreciated. Thanks!
The answer to your question is NO!

Why
1) Since the half life of HCG is roughly 48 hours it should be dosed at least every THREE DAYs to maintain any benefit from achieving steady state levels.

2) For 5000 IU to "last" 90 days a dose of 50 IU would be required every day and no doubt some of that would be rendered relatively useless considering HCG is a globular polypeptide which is readily susceptible to oxidation/reduction reactions, ESP after 30 days.

3) So although some studies have revealed elevated TT levels in hypogonadal men, at dosages as low as 50 IU QD, the magnitude of the TT is quite small AND relatively brief because HCG has such a large volume of distribution.

(Which means it is diluted THROUGHOUT the body and into areas which are not bioavailable.)
This is particularly true at lower HCG dosages.

4) WHATS MOST IMPORTANT!!!
The overwhelming "benefit" achieved by the use of intra-cycle HCG is the maintenance of FERTILITY.
So those nads which do increase in size when HCG is used is the result of enhanced spermatogenesis and NOT the result of enhanced TT secretion.

5) So yep I agree with KEP entirely save your money and use HCG POST-CYCLE, fella.
Because make no mistake about it, that's when HCG becomes VERY IMPORTANT as a means of enabling HTPA recovery!!!!


Regs
Jim
 
Last edited:
C

caveman

Member
Apr 17, 2013
45
5
#6
Am I correct in understanding that ya'll are recommending 500iu HCG, 2x per week, starting immediately at the cessation of the cycle? I thought the protocol was to wait the half-life of the esters in your cycle before starting any PCT?
 
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
#7
Am I correct in understanding that ya'll are recommending 500iu HCG, 2x per week, starting immediately at the cessation of the cycle? I thought the protocol was to wait the half-life of the esters in your cycle before starting any PCT?

HCG is most effective once the exogenous TT level has fallen considerably for MOST esters that's 1-2 weeks POST CYCLE.

Know this, what type of patients was HCG proven EFFECTIVE?

Those with "low T" or hypo-gonadal TT levels which is generally considered less than 250ng/DL regardless of age.

Regs
Jim
 
C

caveman

Member
Apr 17, 2013
45
5
#8
HCG is most effective once the exogenous TT level has fallen considerably for MOST esters that's 1-2 weeks POST CYCLE.

Know this, what type of patients was HCG proven EFFECTIVE?

Those with "low T" or hypo-gonadal TT levels which is generally considered less than 250ng/DL regardless of age.

Regs
Jim
Got it. Thanks, Doc!
 
dr jim

dr jim

MuscleHead
Apr 7, 2014
785
168
#9
Got it. Thanks, Doc!
I'm not suggesting HCG is of NO BENEFIT (even though it's use is limited as long as TT levels remain supra-physiologic) during a cycle BUT IMO, the greatest bang for your buck is by far POST-CYCLE after exogenous TT levels begin their decline.

Consequently, begin that stuff when that TT is falling, some time after the cycle has ended so you won't feel a "low T" crash.

This juncture (a few weeks post cycle) is also a good time to begin an AI, which is obviously used to lower E-2 and hopefully enable the next PCT step SERM therapy.

However the latter should ONLY begin when that TT level has approximated your pre-cycle baseline, brought about thru the use of HCG!

best
jim
 
Last edited:
ItalianMuscle

ItalianMuscle

Drama Queen senior Vip
Sep 1, 2010
2,396
726
#10
Ive always ran HCG during cycle. Even when I was on HRT/TRT, doc had me doing the same thing.. M/Thursday 1000ius.. If you run it during cycle, you dont have to afterwards..

I copied/pasted some info on running it during cycle, opposed to after..

Post-Cycle-Therapy is a must upon cessation of steroid use. Many great Post Cycle Therapy protocols have been outlined over the years, and many individuals have had success with following such protocols. Nevertheless, what works can always work better, and I intend to show you the most effective way to recover from AAS. This is especially the case for those that have had a lack of success following popular advice. In this article I will address the misunderstanding and misuse of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) and show you the most efficient way to use hCG for the fastest and most complete recovery.

HCG unraveled –

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to increase testosterone levels. (1) More specifically LH is the primary signal sent from the pituitary to the testes, which stimulates the leydig cells within the testes to produce testosterone.

When steroids are administered, LH levels rapidly decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, which causes rapid onset of testicular degeneration. The testicular degeneration begins with a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT),peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) – All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production. (2-6,19) However, this degeneration can be prevented by a small maintenance dose of hCG ran throughout the cycle. Unfortunately, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that hCG should be used after a cycle, during Post-Cycle-Therapy. Upon reviewing the science and basic endocrinology you will see that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran during a cycle.

Firstly, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand its purpose and its most efficient application. Many popular “steroid profiles” advocate using hCG at a dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical (1960?s) hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to prolonged LH deficiency. (21,22) A prolonged LH deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hCG dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal LH levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (2,11) (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.) (12-18) If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won’t regain full testicular function.

One term that is critical to understand is testosterone secretion capacity which is synonymous to testicular sensitivity. This is the amount of testosterone your testes can produce from any given level of LH or hCG stimulation. Therefore, if you have reduced testosterone secretion capacity (reduced testicular sensitivity),it will take more LH or hCG stimulation to produce the same result as if you had normal testosterone secretion capacity. If you reduce your testosterone secretion capacity too much, then no amount of LH or hCG stimulation will trigger natural testosterone production – and this leads to permanently reduced testosterone production. (recovering full testosterone production is a topic for another article)

To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%. (2-6)

Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. (4) This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) So do not judge how “shutdown” you are by testicular size!

The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids. (8) In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. (7) Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production) 20

In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn’t use it on cycle.

Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. (2) It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start Post-Cycle-Therapy so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)

Based off the above information, an optimal dose of hCG during the cycle would be 250iu every 4 days, or as a less desirable alternative, once a week shot of 500iu. Keep in mind, that the half-life of hCG is 3-4 days, while the half-life of LH is only 1-2 hours. Considering this difference in excretion time, it is best to space each dose of hCG at least 4 days apart for the optimal “peak and valley” replication. However, going more than 7 days between each hCG shot may promote increase the rate of desensitization from lack of LH or hCG stimulation.

If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG “kick starting” dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose) Remember, since the testes will be desensitized later in a cycle, you will require a higher dose. Also, the maximum daily dose of hCG should not exceed 5000iu, and 4-7 days must be taken off between each shot. Generally, a higher dose will require a longer off period between each shot. (eg., 2500iu = 7 days between each shot)

Note: If following the on cycle hCG protocol, hCG should NOT be used for pct.

Recap -

For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 250iu every 4 days starting 14 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels. This will initiate a strong LH and FSH surge from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.

In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing hCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash.

Now I would actually use 100iu hCG ED starting 3 days after your first AAS dose.

A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a weekly shot of 500iu hCG, throughout the entire cycle. Beyond this dose, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence. (40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)

The dose one needs varies and can be adjusted mid cycle if
necessary. Because leptin is a major inhibitor of gonadal function
in men, men with higher body fat levels require larger doses of HCG
to get the same effect.

Body Fat Percentage

<10%: 250-300 iu twice weekly
10-15%: 300-350 iu twice weekly
>15%: 350-500 iu twice weekly

5) Do the math to determine the volume you need for your desired
dose. 1 cc = 1,000 iu, so 0.5 cc = 500 iu, 0.25 cc = 250 iu etc.

6) Use an insulin syringe (29 gauge is ideal) to measure your dose
and inject subcutaneously one inch to either side of your belly
button.

If testicular atrophy begins to occur on your selected dose, simply
raise yourself to the next bracket. It is better to not use more
than you need if you plan to come off cycle eventually. Minor
atrophy is quickly reversed with proper Post Cycle Therapy.
 
Bionixx

Bionixx

MuscleHead
Dec 6, 2011
326
9
#11
Decided it's awesome to save till the very end of cycle so you can do 1000iu 2x week a week after last shot if your using short esters and a week after if long esters.
 
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