Makin a come back...thoughts and questions in TRT.

Discussion in 'Testosterone Replacement therapy (TRT)' started by BIGasTexas, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. BIGasTexas

    BIGasTexas VIP Member

    Nov 17, 2012
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    Sup fellas. It's been a really long time since I've been around. Too long. And I am trying to get my ass back into shape again. I have had a couple side conversations with Chesty but thought I'd open myself up to the larger group. I have some thoughts and questions and was hoping to get some constructive feedback and direction.

    I'll be 45 yrs old next month and this is my 3rd attempt in the last few years to get motivated and get back into real shape. 10 years ago (shit that's a long time) I was 6' foot tall, around 225 lb's and 8-10% BF...lifting 4-5 days a week and cardio when I needed it.

    Fast forward to today and I'm 235 lbs (down from 255 lbs in the last 30 days but I'm holding alot of extra body fat in my chest, stomach and kidney areas. I'm fed up and can't take it anymore.

    I have really cleaned up my diet...mainly eating keto (good fat, leafy greens, veggies, grass fed meats and daily probiotics) mixing in running (jog walking), swimming, hot yoga with lifting 2-3x a week.

    And although I am feeling alot better I'm obviously not feeling as strong as the old days. So I have been contemplating a TRT program of 250-300 mgs a week.

    Some thoughts and questions:
    - I will be increasing my weightlifting to at least 4 days a week soon. Should I keep 4-5 sessions a week of cardio or back off a little (for recovery)?
    - I am worried my BF% is still too high to get on TRT. I have read that this leads to an increase in aromatization and the last thing I need to be fighting is bloat and/or gyno. Any thoughts on this? Can this be easily controlled with AI's?
    - I have no immidiate desire to stack even a light AAS (var?) but damnit I remember how good a little deca or dbol felt...when should I think about adding this in for short amounts of time?

    I'm sure I'll have more questions on my journey...I appreciate your help. I also feel I have lost a lot of my previous knowledge when it comes to workout plans and cycles. Trying to knock the cobwebs and dust off.

    Thanks!
    BaT
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  2. BIGasTexas

    BIGasTexas VIP Member

    Nov 17, 2012
    37
    0
    Oh...and I will be going to get some labs in the next couple of weeks...just to see where I'm at....
     
  3. BIGasTexas

    BIGasTexas VIP Member

    Nov 17, 2012
    37
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    Guess I should have asked...what should I be checking in my labs besides Test levels? Cholesterol of course....liver enzymes?
     
  4. macgyver

    macgyver TID Board Of Directors

    Nov 24, 2011
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    250-300 is not a "TRT" program. It is a conservative cycle. 100mg/week will put you in upper third range. 150 will top you out (generally). 200 (the most any GP will script, will put you over into super physiological range).

    I think you need to get some real goals. Your "20lbs" weight loss in 30 days, is not real. It is mostly water. It is impossible to lose 20lbs in 30 days of real fat, Unless you basically fasted.

    If you really were 6' tall and 225 @ 10% in your prime, you must have had an amazing physique. That is about like Arnold in his prime. If you did not look similar.....you were not 10%bf.

    My advice, is begin a controlled deficit of 750cal (max). You should lose about 1.5lbs / week which is fine when you are carrying excess bf. My guess is might be slightly out of touch with just how much you have to lose. But regardless.....just eat a structured deficit and let time take it's course.

    I think I would save cycling till you actually have your training and nutrition in check to take advantage of it. It is not anything "magic"...and wont overcome a poorly planed diet and sub par training.

    Good luck
     
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  5. BIGasTexas

    BIGasTexas VIP Member

    Nov 17, 2012
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    Thanks for the reality check Macgyver. As far as BF%, back in my prime I know that most bro's (including competitive BB's) always think they're lower than they are. I never had any accurate measurements done...but I always assumed 10% was when guys started seeing abs. I was a 31/32 waist at the time.

    Also appreciate the correct TRT dosage advice. Sounds like I don't have to take as much per week as what I was thinking. Any thoughts on supplementing T while having a higher BF% and aromatization? One thought I had is that it would help increase muscle mass thus aid in burning fat...but belly fat alone (I think) increases estrogen...any advice on if I should run a light AI with 100-125 mg's per week? Or maybe forgo Test all together until I lean out....?

    I also realize that 50-75% of my current weight loss is mostly water. But I am able to tell when I'm in ketosis and that will aid in losing fat as long as I keep my diet clean. Coffee, tea & water is all I allow myself and I also include some weekly intermittent fasting.

    Lastly, what do you think would be the milestone (goal) I should shoot for before beginning a true bulking cycle?

    Again...appreciate your constructive criticism. I'm thick skinned and can take it. I lost the ego a long time ago....

    Thanks,
    BaT
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  6. BIGasTexas

    BIGasTexas VIP Member

    Nov 17, 2012
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    0
    As far as labs, I am thinking:

    - DHEA-S
    - Cortisol
    - Progesterone
    - Estrogen
    - Test, free & total

    Thoughts? How often?
     
  7. BrotherIron

    BrotherIron TID Board Of Directors

    Mar 6, 2011
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    Check TSH levels too.
     
  8. BIGasTexas

    BIGasTexas VIP Member

    Nov 17, 2012
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    thyroid stimulating hormone...got it. Thanks brother....
     
  9. macgyver

    macgyver TID Board Of Directors

    Nov 24, 2011
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    Your going to find many different opinions here. All I can do is share mine. My views are not necessarily the most common either, but they are based upon my experiences.

    First off....I dont think true TRT is anything magic. And most people's problems will not be impacted in the slightest by just being brought up to the high normal. Testosterone is not a big player in muscle development (at normal philological levels). Eg....guys will 1100 levels are not necessarily more muscular than guys with 400 levels. It is really about the symptoms. If you have true low t symptoms, you will know it. (but be careful as low t symptoms are almost identical to other hormones like thyroid). So, you have to do your due diligence. If you first drop the body fat, and then are living a healthy lifestyle and STILL suffer from those symptoms, by all means seek treatment.

    OK...why do I say TRT is not the answer? Well, I decided to get back in shape after I was in a bad accident. I'm in my mid 40's now but had been out of the gym for almost a decade when I decided to re-dedicate. I too was in good shape in my 20's. But what I did different was I really focused on diet for the first time. I set my macros and hit them to the "T" every day.

    This was my first 11 weeks "back". This is a honest "transformation"....not some thing where I was trying to win a contest and look crappy in some pics and better in others. I ran a steeper than normal deficit, but I knew that muscle memory would be on my side.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Ok....good transformation right?.... Well I found out a year after this that I had legitimate Low-t AND way hypo-thyroid. So I made this transformation despite TWO of the issues people thing will hold them back. Just goes to show the laws of thermodynamics are real....eat a deficit and lose weight. I had then gone on to get in the best shape of my life...despite my hormone issues.

    The only thing that made me discover them, was I suffered from TERRIBLE fatigue, despite getting in better and better shape. By my third physical, my doctor tested me and it was an "a-ha" moment. My head trauma which had happened a few years back prior to returning to the gym likely damaged my pituitary. (both Test and TSH are pituitary hormones)

    That is what led me to go on TRT. I waited a year to get that straight and then went on thyroid as well. It cured my fatigue issues, and is something I dont regret. BUT I was hesitant to commit to a lifetime of treatment. The alternative was much worse though so it was not a hard choice.

    So what does that all mean to a guy coming back like you?............ My advice:

    Get your intake straight, and lean to set proper nutrition goals. You already know the working out side. In 6 months, you will be well on your way to a new life...even better than before! (probably less time, if you get your stuff down right)

    I'll share a pic of a comparison I made of myself from a pic at 22 vs 4 months back training. Yes...you can come back quick.
    [​IMG]


    That was about 5 years ago, and I have come well past that...but it shows how quick we bounce back. TRT....or even a cycle is not necessary by any means.


    If after you get your crap in order, and have picked back up the discipline in the gym and the kitchen, you decide you want to add some additional supplements to your training....go for it. But do it right. Be ready to take advantage of it. Be discipline in your nutrition and your routine.

    DONT opt for TRT unless you really need it medically. It is not the magic key to gains or being lean. A proper diet and lifestyle is. Get you stuff straight, and then run a small cycle when you are ready if that is what you want. No need to commit to TRT.

    Just my advice.
     
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  10. BIGasTexas

    BIGasTexas VIP Member

    Nov 17, 2012
    37
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    Awesome...really appreciate you sharing your story. I will say that I have let myself go a little further than your "before" pic but everything you're saying makes a lot of sense. Guess I just assumed mid 40's + fat guy automatically = low T. And of course I do remember how good it felt to be strong and running a small cycle...but there are no real shortcuts.

    I'm going to get my lab work done in the next 2-3 weeks and post up the results for some feedback.

    BaT
     
  11. body_by_donuts

    body_by_donuts VIP Member

    Jul 5, 2011
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    TRT is a huge commitment, the first few years seem like nothing. 5years later it gets very old hitting pins each week.
     
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  12. prime

    prime TID Board Of Directors

    Dec 31, 2011
    1,076
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    Switch to SubQ. IM got old for me in less than a year. I've been doing SubQ almost ten years.
     

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