Low dose growth or MK677?

[rawdeal]

Anecdotal evidence from experienced users on boards seems to suggest the beneficial effects of GH exceed those of Peptides, so maybe the visible Andre-like undesirable effects would have already been seen first from GH users before Pep use became common (?)

Andre was a natural acromegaly case, however, who knows how his levels compared to the levels of those who use the exogenous route? Also, Andre's levels would have begun earlier in life than those who elect to go supra-physiological. Of those who are willing to mega-dose, maybe that would have been available with GH before Peps?

Maybe it's still too early to observe the effect of Pep use, especially excessive Pep use?

 

[Wilson6]

Anecdotal evidence from experienced users on boards seems to suggest the beneficial effects of GH exceed those of Peptides, so maybe the visible Andre-like undesirable effects would have already been seen first from GH users before Pep use became common (?)

Andre was a natural acromegaly case, however, who knows how his levels compared to the levels of those who use the exogenous route? Also, Andre's levels would have begun earlier in life than those who elect to go supra-physiological. Of those who are willing to mega-dose, maybe that would have been available with GH before Peps?

Maybe it's still too early to observe the effect of Pep use, especially excessive Pep use?

There is a limit to what a normal pituitary can produce, never heard of a case report of acromegaly from peptide stim, doesn't mean its impossible. In addition, the peptide causes the natural release, exogenous GH does not, this is in that slide set PDF. One of the reasons I'd stay away from CJC w/DAC, prolongs the half-life to days and that is a long way from normal. You don't want to burn out the endogenous system like massive CHO intake can burn out natural insulin release. In fact some think that by using low doses of exogenous insulin in guys consuming massive amounts of kcal, it would be pancreas sparing. I had asked Victor Black about peptides a while back, he said the same thing guys see on the board. Peptides can restore a more natural, albeit high end GH release, naturally, but if you want supraphysiological effects, you have to go with GH.

 

[BackAtIt]

There is a limit to what a normal pituitary can produce, never heard of a case report of acromegaly from peptide stim, doesn't mean its impossible.

In addition, the peptide causes the natural release, exogenous GH does not, this is in that slide set PDF. One of the reasons I'd stay away from CJC w/DAC, prolongs the half-life to days and that is a long way from normal. You don't want to burn out the endogenous system like massive CHO intake can burn out natural insulin release. In fact some think that by using low doses of exogenous insulin in guys consuming massive amounts of kcal, it would be pancreas sparing. I had asked Victor Black about peptides a while back, he said the same thing guys see on the board. Peptides can restore a more natural, albeit high end GH release, naturally, but if you want supraphysiological effects, you have to go with GH.

Any data on how to tell if the endogenous system is in the process of "burning-out"?...Blood Markers or such?...


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[Wilson6]

Any data on how to tell if the endogenous system is in the process of "burning-out"?...Blood Markers or such?...


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Let me do some digging on that one. I remember some of the papers showing a lesser response over time on some of the GHRH or GRPs, just can't remember where and which one. I think the standard practice is 5 d on/2 d off and a month off every 3 months or so, and avoid CJC w/DAC unless you're just running it for a month or two. The other question is, should one rotate GHRHs or GRP peptides. The CJC no DAC and IPA appears to be the most specific for GH release (ex aldosterone, cortisol, prolatin, and appetite increase), but some of the older peptides are also interesting with unique properties and clinical application (ref the PDF I posted). So it may be worth switching up the peptides from time to time along with a month break here and there.

 

[BackAtIt]

Let me do some digging on that one. I remember some of the papers showing a lesser response over time on some of the GHRH or GRPs, just can't remember where and which one. I think the standard practice is 5 d on/2 d off and a month off every 3 months or so, and avoid CJC w/DAC unless you're just running it for a month or two. The other question is, should one rotate GHRHs or GRP peptides. The CJC no DAC and IPA appears to be the most specific for GH release (ex aldosterone, cortisol, prolatin, and appetite increase), but some of the older peptides are also interesting with unique properties and clinical application (ref the PDF I posted). So it may be worth switching up the peptides from time to time along with a month break here and there.

What I was specifically curious about is whether or not there is actual data to show damage to the pituitary gland or any other gland responsible for outputting hormones AFTER one has dabbled with hormones (peps and/or steroids)?....

We always hear of "shutting" down the HPTA via the use of hormones...However, I've never seen the "reason" or rather what actually happened to the gland in question?...Did hormone use cause the gland to wear out or perhaps some sort of physical damage was detected to the gland that is supposedly permanently shut down?...

Again, W6, really appreciate your time on this!!!!...U always clear up these questions for me!!!!....

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[Tuffoldman]

Have you noticed anything since starting the SER/IPA?

Sleeping a lot better. Not sleeping more actually, since starting this I seem to be sleeping a little bit less but I'm actually sleeping better. May just be in my head but recovery seems to be quicker. I do high-volume training so generally I'm very very sore but I don't seem to be getting as sore now even with adding additional sets. And the soreness seems to go away a lot quicker than it did. So far that's about all I've seen. Hoping for some increase collagen production and just overall better health which is very hard to measure looking in the mirror. Can't really say any leaning out but I haven't been on it that long.

 

[Wilson6]

This guide has some useful peptide info and dosing recs. Peptide Info So far nothing that addresses the possible pituitary burnout issue, but as Dr Eric Serrano once told me, you should take a break from any exogenous hormones from time to time. Exception being HRT only.

 

[Stickler]

Never used MK677, but I take 3.3IU of Jintropin 5 days on 2 off and I really like it.

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All the time or just while on cycle as well?

 

[138casanova]

All the time or just while on cycle as well?

For the last couple of years.

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