Losing 150lbs - Advice about schedule/macros/diet

[ItalianMuscle]

IM

I am not busting your chops AT ALL, but your numbers are a little off. Sorry man....they just are.

Chicken is +/- 6g of protein per oz uncooked.

Link to USDA site if you want to check me:
https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/...up=chicken+breast&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing=


BTW....great site for finding nutrition of just about anything: https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list?home=true

They have 100g @ 22.5g pro. 100g is 3.5oz. So per usda that is 22.5g/3.5oz or 6.4g/oz
4oz of chicken=25g pro.

So if you want to run though your intake;
4x per day chicken @ 7oz/breast. =42g x4 =168

Egg whites only have about 3.5 g protein. (6g/whole egg).

10-12 egg whites= 35-40 grams protein.

Last, your 6-7 oz of sirloin has just under 6g pro/oz. So that is aprox 40grams there

That total intake is aprox 250




No biggie, that is a great amount of protein. I was just saying most people who think they eat 300g per day dont even come close. (250 is pretty close if you really eat that each and every day) You are doing fantastic.

I choose whey for a large portion of my protein. There really is no disputing that high quality whey protein is BY FAR the most bio available. (not to mention the MANY health benefits of it) But truthfully I dont use it becasue it is the "best" I just dont see myself eating that much chicken and 3 lbs of meat a day is not realistic for me. (I generally avg 220g / day). So whey helps me round out my macros.



Sure I could look tighter. Did you miss where I said I am just 2 weeks into starting pulling cals back after a year of eating like crap. I can look just fine (and leave room for icecream). I too do not rely on cardio for fat loss. But I should do more really just for general DV health. I usually squeeze in 2 45 min LISS sessions when school is in, since I workout while waiting on my daughters dance classes which run longer than I can lift


This was just over a year ago...before I fcame into a year where work and personal life took it's toll on my eating ( I still never skipped the gym but ate like total crap for almost a whole year) In these pic I am not the leanest, but I would call it decent shape. Just enjoying weekend cookouts with a few beers, eating pizza, pasta, icecream....all in moderation.

I am not posting pics because I feel I look great. I am tougher on myself than anyone will ever be. As a matte of fact, I always quit my diets before I ever really reach where I want to get. I keep saying every year, I want to get in real good shape, and then most times I stop short. But for living a balanced life, I feel I am in decent shape. For 45 and being a guy who spends 6 days a week running my kids to all their activities, I'm OK with where Iam at. Of course I think I could do better, but I try to keep a healthy balance in my life. However I am pushing now again, and found some new motivation to hold a decent deficit. So we will see if I can carry my current deficit far enough to really hit the level I would like to.

As I said, much respect to you and I know what you have accomplished. There is little doubt to me you have experience. I am just telling you that many of your ideas on nutrition are based more on dogma rather than science.

This is one of the guys who first turned me on to flexible dieting. Kane Sumabat. Just to show how extreme IIFYM could be taken, he dieted down to contest shape eating only fried chicken and crispy 2 dozen Kreme donughts per week. (he supplemented whey to hit his protein macros). He also did blood work before and after. He is almost 50 now but did that diet a few years back.
http://www.simplyshredded.com/kane-sumabat.html


I can see I am not going to change your mind..... Thats cool. Just be aware that some of the ideas you think are set in stone, might not really hold water. If you enjoy them, great. My only issue arises when people give others advice which is....well not really in keeping with what science and even anecdotal evidence has proven over and over. (yes, believe it or not, there have been studies that show for a standardized calorie intake, pure sucrose resulted in identical rates of fat loss and gain when those same amout of carbs came from complex sources).

If you care to read about stuff, check out a guy named Alan Aragon. He MIGHT make you reconsider some of your ideas. Either way...you are doing great man....keep it up!

I guess its what sites you get your Marcos info from. I just know its easy to consume 300g of protein from meat. When I hear or read guys taking in 400g on the forums, yes, its laughable like you said. I don't buy it. Unless its an athlete like Michael Phelps. And guys like that, are less then 1% of the world population..

Another reason I don't use whey protein shakes, is because it doesn't curb my appetite or make me full. I need to stay full up until my next meal. My metabolism is running crazy right now. Im consuming more calories/carbs/protein, but body is looking fuller and fuller. Im curious to see how I will look in 6 weeks with the diet changes and anabolics..

As for your info on Kane Sumabat, we are talking about gifted athletes. What he is doing, may very well work for you and me, but its not going to work for everyone else. Im not by any mens gifted. Only genetic gift I have on my physique is my shoulders. Everything else, Ive had to work extra hard for.. I still have work to do even at 46. Its funny, I get more compliments now in my 40s then I did when I was in my 30s. Im sure you do as well..

Again, you look great for your age. I hope it continues well into your 50s and 60s..

We are going to continue to agree and disagree.. You know your body better then anyone else, as do I. And yes it is science.. But I don't consider my ideas or knowledge as dogma as you put it.

Again, would love to share pics, but not possible for me anymore.. Unless of course you catch a glimpse of me at the pools in Las Vegas in 6 weeks.. and then again in Cali right after. LOL

 

[ItalianMuscle]

For shits and giggles, I asked my friend about his thoughts on ramen noodles for my diet this is what he said..

"We can use no yolk egg noodles, ever had those?"

He then proceeded to tell me, ramen noodles is refined carbs, and do have a good amount of fat and sodium. Not useful sodium either from lack of iodine.

I asked him about cheese/dairy incorporated into diet as well. This was his response..

"Aged cheeses are actually healthy for you, because they contain K2 which can protect the heart from plaque buildup.
Dairy overall is NOT the best for building or cutting due to how your body handles milk sugar. Not to mention digestibility often gets compromised"

More new stuff I learned today.. Just passing it along..

 

[macgyver]

I have been up to 248# with a 34" waist and never ran any high doses to get there either.

@Littleguy
Just wanted to say a sincere thanks. I remember when I first came here to this forum. I knew nothing of anabolics and was just going TRT so it opened options for me I had not considered. I can remember you and @Glycomann passing along advice about not getting carried away, and if one is to be in this for the long-haul, that big cycles are not necessary. There were a bunch of guys who offered thier advice. Shine was another that took me under his wing. He was a great guy. It is funny, how we have these exchanges on boards....and most people dont even know the impact thier words have. Your guys advice set me on the path I am now. I dont think I would be in this exact same spot without the help of others. That is why I love sharing in posts like this as well. I never know who reads this stuff....but if it helps anyone, then it is worth it. I can say that I dont thank those enough who have offered their advice over the years. Thank you.






IM

Thanks for sharing. You dont need to post pics man. I know you are legit. I can remember seeing yours pics back when I think it was halloween and I admired your physique.

It is nice to have an exchange of ideas for sure. One cool thing is I have helped quite a few people lose weight using the same techniques. IIFYM. Many dont even workout. The best to point to is my 70+ year old mom. Italian lady that barely breaks 5' tall. She had a gallbladder surgery years ago and was convinced she could never lose weight. She was up to 160lbs (for such a small lady that is big). She worked in a medical office where 1/2 the other women had gastric bypass and she was so frustrated that she was really considering it.

I convinced her to spend 2 weeks visiting us. I sat down with her, and asked her all the foods she enjoys eating...etc. We went to the grocery store and went isle by isle. I set up macros for her to assure she would get enough protein. That was going to be a challenge. I utilized a good quality whey to help her hit her 100g goal. (remember she is a 70 year old lady with no activity).

Long story short, she was tremendously successful and stopped her weight loss at 118 as she did not want to be any smaller. She told me after that she never believed it would work since she got to eat all the same foods. It was just portion control.

One more extreme one is a good friend (does not workout) but loves to drink whiskey. 5'7 240 but stocky and former military. I wrote him up a diet which included an allotment for his cals from whiskey and it worked like a champ. He dropped down to 185 and even had a touch of abs which he had not seen in 30 years.

Just a few examples.


While I am pushing back on some ideas being presented, I need to make clear that I do seek out the majority of my diet come from whole unprocessed sources. I eat lots of black berries, strawberries, oranges, apples on a daily basis. I love things like short grain brown rice, and barley is my new favorite low impact carb. (try it and you will be amazed at the amount you get to eat for about 30g of carbs). It makes you feel like you are cheating. My meat staples are 93/7beef, london broils (top round which is approx 94% lean), chicken breast and lean pork. I do love dairy and I rely heavily on it for protein. I usually drink almost a gallon every 3 days. I like greek yogurts. (sometimes I add 1 scoop of unflavored whey isolate into them and bring them up to 35g of protein when trying to balance stuff out. I cook with mostly coconut oil and use MCT for misc fat choices. That is the foundation of what I eat. But I leave room for other things. This year past and the stress and time limits I was under, meant that I chose things like chick-fil-a a lot more. I also ate out quite a bit. I am pulling back in now though but am amazed that eating so poorly affected me so little.

@ItalianMuscle I would love to hear any ideas on anabolics and diet. I keep stuff pretty simple, but am always looking to learn. I will be the first to say that I know very little. I like the idea where you say you are trying to approach things in a smart way rather than just upping the grams. I too believe that after a certain point of leanness, you can really manipulate food impact with timing (especially with simple carbs). I would love to hear your ideas on anabolics and timing with cutting...etc.

When just running TRT, I tend to stay lower than my script. I feel best @ 125-150/week. When I cut, I go up to the full 200. (sometimes above, but I cant say I have not noticed much difference at 500vs200 when cutting). I save super-physiological doses for when I am eating enough to use the cals to try to eek out a touch more growth. I tried var, but for some reason, I seem to get the start of gyno as soon as I start even about 40mg/day. I have tried a couple times and either my body is weird (as Var should never cause this) or the raws which are producing the var have dbol or something else in them. I cant even look at dbol without having issues. First time I tried it, it did not take long to figure out it was not for me.

I appreciate the dialogue and any knowledge you want to share.

 

[ItalianMuscle]

here is what Im doing now..
Meal 1: 2 cups egg whites, 1/2 cup oatmeal, 1 slice Ezekiel bread, 2 tbs all natural peanut butter
Meal 2-5: 6 ounces of chic, 3 slices of Ezekiel bread, or 1 cup rice, 2 tsp olive oil
Meal 6: 7 ounces 90% lean ground sirloin, 3 slices Ezekiel bread, or 1/2 cup oatmeal, 1 slice Ezekiel bread
(or I do same as meal 1, just no peanut butter)

Cheat meal: once a week, usually Saturday nite or Sunday morning. Last week it was 1/2lb hamburger with a fried egg, bacon, hash brown, slice of American cheese, fried onions, tomatoes, jalapeños, and maple syrup. And basket of hand cut French fries. Burger is called Breakfast all day burger.. Awesome burger joint by me. Place is always packed with a line out the door.

Test Cyp 200mg/week
Test Prop 50mg EOD
Mast P 50mgEOD
Tren Ace 50mgEOD
Clen 40mcg, 2days on, 1 off
Arimidex .5mg EOD

I know carbs are dropping this weekend, I already asked. So Ill be eating bags of green beans with pretty much every meal except with the egg whites.

 

[macgyver]

@ItalianMuscle

Thanks for responding back. I admire you on the Spartan diet. I am not sure I could eat like that day in and day out. I totally agree that a diet like that is great if that is what you enjoy.

Myself, I like food. I took some pics tonight because I am the type that likes to at least put up when it comes to my statements on diet and nutrition. I respect fully your privacy as well if you choose not to. I know you are in good shape. (or at least were at one point) I am coming off a 4th of July carb binge so yesterday my skin was tight as a drum and veins were popping out of everywhere and now today I am rebounded and bloated as hell and flat. But I took pics anyway. (I do progress vids so I screen capped some pics)

Diet on the 4th

Doing intermittent fasting so lunch was first meal. I ate light knowing I was going to eat a bunch of food.


Lunch 8oz sirloin, chobani yogurt.

Rest of day. 5pm-130am

I drank quite a bit.... I brought a 12 pack with me and my cooler came home empty. I know I grabbed 2 or 3 out of my buddies fridge later in the night. (we shut it down at 1:30am). I dont drink often. I maybe get drunk twice a year. But I was with friends and having a good time....so it kinda happened.



1st cookout:
1-Italian sausage in hot dog bun with onions
2-hotdogs w/ relish and spicy mustard
1-hamburger (probably 6oz)
3 or 4 big homemade chocolate chip cookies
A few slices of watermelon.

2nd cookout
1 kielbasa on a bun
Then I just started hitting the sweets!
1 red white and blue rice crispy treat cut in a star pattern
5 or 6 brownies
4 or 5 jello shots
1 Carmel and chocolate w/ peanuts icecream drumstick


I got home and was pretty drunk. I asked my wife if there was any chance we had time for some fun. She said she was pretty tired....so I went into the kitchen and had a bowl of chocolate chip cookie dough icecream, then used same bowl for some cocoa pebbles....then I wanted something savory....so I ate a handfull of rosemary olive oil Triscuits. (yea....drunk binge )


I woke up thurs and had an awesome workout that night.

Today diet was back on track, but I was pretty bloated off the carb rebound from Wed.

Lunch 6oz sirlion
1 grilled cheese on white wheat bread with 1 slice pepper jack and one slice provolone
1 Chobaini strawberry yogurt
1 wasa cracker w/ laughing cow cheese spread on it.
A few strawberries and a handfull of black berries.

Then I worked out and shot the pics. Then I had a pwo shake.

4oz apple juice (I add 20 oz of water to bring to proper consistency)
1.5 cups frozen strawberries
1 frozen banana
1scoop unflavored whey
1scoop strawberry banana whey
1 tsp xylitol (keeping sugar lower....normally I add dextrose)

Dinner.
2 slices of new york style pizza
Snack a handfull of M&M pretzel chocolates.

Before bed I will have a shake

6oz water
4g leucine
20g unflavored whey
2 tsp Metamucil
1 squirt orange flavoring

First I will be the first to admit I am FAR from being in great shape. As you mentioned, I could tighten up quite a bit. I am 3 weeks into dieting now. I have only done a little cheating for a couple meals along the way, but 4th of July was pretty bad I would consider myself in decent shape and headed toward getting in really good shape. (but I am not a bodybuilder and not even under the allusion that I am going to get in contest shape. )

Other supps.

Test Cyp @ 200mg/week

This is me 3 weeks into "flexible dieting"

 

[ItalianMuscle]

You look sharp bro. Great physique. Wish I could post up, but I can't, hope you understand..
Ive been dieting for over 20 weeks, and yes, its been pretty much the same exact thing, day in and day out. Guys at work don't know how I do it. Its just being disciplined. I just left my burger joint.. and I topped off the burger/fries with a big cookie.. LOL
Now its back to the grind. I honestly am looking forward to next cheat meal, but thats over a week away..
Its pretty amazing that you can eat that way and look like you do. Some mighty nice genetics..
Its funny, when I did pizza a few weeks ago, the guy at the counter asked me how I can look the way I do and eat pizza. Now Im getting into a big conversation about my body being in a state of ketosis, etc..And then I have to explain my diet, etc.. Annoying sometimes to be honest.

But keep up the good work.. You honestly could be pretty ripped up in a short amount of time, which is also being blessed with good genetics..

 

[ItalianMuscle]

Also, Ive heard of that interment fasting. I honestly couldn't do it. My one buddy was asking/talking to me about it, and asked my opinion. I need to eat 6x a day. Just the thought of not being able to eat for 16hours, don't think I could handle it..

 

[macgyver]

@ItalianMuscle Thanks man. As I mentioned, I am not naturally a lean person. But over the past 8 years I have been controlling my intake with the past 3 concentrating on staying in leaner condition year round. (I gave up on bulking after a 4 month run @600mg and eating up 30lbs scale weight, netted me no real mass gain after I dieted back down). So I just figured it was time to stay leaner and eek out whatever growth I could get and stay where I could see it. I drift up and down 10lbs max now. More from just life....than thoughtful caloric manipulation.

As for the intermittent fasting, I too NEVER thought it would work for me. Over the past 8 years, I pretty much always ate 6 times/day. ESPECIALLY when dieting, I like to eat often and actually felt like I had to or my hunger would go crazy.

I have been hearing guys sing the praises of IF for a long time and always felt it was not for me. Then a few weeks back, I just decided to try it. Within 3 days I realized how EASY it was. I always am hungry on a deficit. ALWAYS. It is late nights visiting the fridge for a pickle, or handful of jalapenos, or a cucumber and salt...etc. My appetite is always the biggest barrier to maintain my deficit. So as I am in the pic above, is about as lean as I am ever willing to go.

On IF, I have absolutely ZERO issues controlling hunger. In the past 3 weeks, I maybe have gone to bed feeling hungry 2 or 3 times. That is it! Compared with EVERY night of a std deficit, it is so much easier.

You ought to try it. I never thought it would work for me and now I have found the motivation to actually try to get down to a fairly lean state. I am very excited.

One thing I have found recently is C8 MCT powder. The 'C8' is the 8 -carbon medium chain triglyceride that our bodies treat like pure energy (or the closest thing to a carb you will find on KETO.) I bought it as a coffee creamer instead of the dash of milk I was using in the couple of coffees I have AM. 2g of this is only 15cal +/- without any effect on blood sugar so it works for my IF strategery and does not trigger any hunger). I could see many ways to use this, especially on keto


https://www.amazon.com/Nutricost-MC...F8&qid=1531015380&sr=8-8&keywords=c8+mct&th=1

I wont try to sway you too much But maybe over the winter, if you feel like it, experiment with some IIFYM. You may find something in it you like. Or a chance to take a little break from having to be so rigid. If you can do that year round, day in and day out, I have to hand it to you. IIFYM does not have to be sloppy. You can still do it with good foods.


If you would ever take the time to read something, this is a good synopsis of many of the ideas we have discussed in this thread. Keep an open mind and read it. Alan is not the only one, guys like Lyle McDonald have written quite a bit about 'flexible dieting' as well. I am guessing you know who Lyle is and his influence on the sport of bodybuilding.

http://www.simplyshredded.com/resea...-written-by-nutrition-expert-alan-aragon.html

 

[macgyver]

I think we lost the OP on this but it has turned into an interesting thread so I posting this over here.

Here is 5 weeks into dieting as I have described above. Still using intermittent fasting. The main advantage I see is the appetite suppression. This is almost too easy.

I have full glute striations (not that anyone wants to see that ). Starting to see 'christmas tree' in my lower back. Just hanging on to stubborn midsection, but skinfolds are steadily dropping. I think this will be the easiest I have ever dieting and I believe it will allow me to get to a level of leanness that I have been unwilling to push to before.

Yes, still eating pizza, and ice cream (in moderation). Havent hit any ramen noodles lately, but I did eat some left over rice-a-roni with two fried porkchops for lunch yesterday. Then had a grilled cheese and a yogurt and some chocolate covered pretzels. At the end of the day, the cals all balance and this is the easiest time I have ever had dieting.

 

[ITAWOLF]

Why would you use cheese for a healthy fat, when olive oil or avocados are a much better choice?

Are you seriously going to debate me on wether rice a roni is a better choice then brown rice? Get the fuck out of here..
The fat grams in rice a roni is quadrupled, not to mention the 1000mg of sodium.. oh, and the butter you use for it too..

And your going to debate me on some shit frozen dinner from Michalenas, that costs .99cents? I suppose thats better then 7-8ounces of lean sirloin too, eh?

And yes, egg whites are a much better choice then any whey protein. Prob the best protein ever..
Whole food in general is better choice then any man made protein..

Why no peas? Do some research.. Studies have shown, they are linked to weightgain..

All meals are important, wether its the first one, or last one.. You need read a little bit on nutrition..

Many of my ideas have been debunked? LMAO!! Tell that to the 2 IFBB pros I use for diet help. One ranked in top 10 in the world..LOL

outstanding!! people use cost over function ---first mistake
2nd is rice
lawd people and their rice

 

[macgyver]

Bumping and old thread but just a small update. I was debating with Italian Muscle about the IIFYM and flexible dieting. As I mentioned, I am a FIRM believer in the principles and have seen it in practice. I finally decided to work Intermittent fasting into the mix. The benifit for me was great appetite control. (the only reason diets fail for me is eventually I would give in and eat).

So this is where I sit finishing out summer. No cardio. Flexible dieting the whole time.


Pic taken "cold" and I am slightly bloated in the pic. Went to a tapas restaurant previous night. Pork belly tacos, teriyaki raw ahi tuna over avocado, fried green tomatoes, and 2 orders of fried chicken and waffles (yes....they were that good I had to order another!) Was with another couple and they must have thought I was a little nuts Had 4-5 beers too.

Anyway....dont be a slave to chicken breast and rice!