Losing 150lbs - Advice about schedule/macros/diet

[macgyver]

Why would you use cheese for a healthy fat, when olive oil or avocados are a much better choice?

Nothing wrong with fat from cheese. It is by no means "unhealthy".... Why eat it? Because it tastes good.

Are you seriously going to debate me on wether rice a roni is a better choice then brown rice? Get the fuck out of here..
The fat grams in rice a roni is quadrupled, not to mention the 1000mg of sodium.. oh, and the butter you use for it too..

Nothing wrong with sodium at all. (unless you are hypertensive and even then it only affects a small percentage of people with regards to blood pressure.) Sodium can be a benefit. But there are strategies that you can use if you like to keep your sodium high, such as getting extra potassium. I use "no salt" added and only half the flavor packet if I want to eat ramens. (yes I eat ramens when I want a quick 40+g of carb and I am in a pinch).

And your going to debate me on some shit frozen dinner from Michalenas, that costs .99cents? I suppose thats better then 7-8ounces of lean sirloin too, eh?

I dont really eat frozen prepared foods, but every once in a while, if the macros and cals work and you enjoy it....why not?

And yes, egg whites are a much better choice then any whey protein. Prob the best protein ever..
Whole food in general is better choice then any man made protein..

Sorry man, you are off the deep end on this. Cold process, micro filtered (so the nucleopeptides are all still intact) is BY FAR a superior protein source. AND it has many many health benifits on top of just a good supply of nitrogen. In fact, search Pub-med and look at all the studies and health benifits of whey. Whey too many to count (pun intended) . By the way......Whey is a highly processed food, so that kinda shoots down your argument about "processed foods are not as good as whole food" thing.

Why no peas? Do some research.. Studies have shown, they are linked to weightgain..

Take the tinfoil hat off man. People say that in regards to they are higher in carbs than other green veggies. No one is getting fat off eating a few peas.

All meals are important, wether its the first one, or last one.. You need read a little bit on nutrition..

You dont seem to know, but I am no slouch. I have close to 20 years training experience, most of it naturally. For 45 I am decently strong, and no trouble controlling body composition.

Many of my ideas have been debunked? LMAO!! Tell that to the 2 IFBB pros I use for diet help. One ranked in top 10 in the world..LOL

You saved the best for last. Never have I seen worse advice than from Pro bodybuilders. Only advice I would take from a "pro" is how to be a "pro". It is almost laughable the relative intelligence level of some of these guys. I know several, and well.....they probably could not pass a high school nutrition class. Their training advice is overly reliant on anabolics, and just a repetition of some garbage someone once told them what to do.

I will not lump them all in this bucket, but I have never met a pro that even know basics of training. All they know is how to train with the assistance of anabolics....and very high levels of them. Watching the programs they have people doing, it is heavily biased to what they used to grow. Well most people are not running 1+g cycles with multiple compounds. But these guys will be happy to sell guys test for 150/10ml. Srs man......wtf would you take a pro bodybuilders advice for? Unless you have his genes (which are obviously great) AND wish to supplement at his levels.......the advice he gives you is pretty much worthless. Much like the contest prep the ones I know have people follow. "stay away from dairy....it makes you fat" "fruit makes you gain fat". These people are not the smartest guys man.


You obviously have achieved quite a bit....but maybe if you took the time to learn a little as well, you would find that your 'absolutes' are not so absolute. Many of your beliefs are outdated bro-lore.

That is not to take away from whay you have accomplished either, so respect to you there. Just saying.....you dont know me either, but I am no slouch myself. As much as you belive your ideas, they just dont hold much actual truth behind them.....

 

[ItalianMuscle]

Nothing wrong with fat from cheese. It is by no means "unhealthy".... Why eat it? Because it tastes good.



Nothing wrong with sodium at all. (unless you are hypertensive and even then it only affects a small percentage of people with regards to blood pressure.) Sodium can be a benefit. But there are strategies that you can use if you like to keep your sodium high, such as getting extra potassium. I use "no salt" added and only half the flavor packet if I want to eat ramens. (yes I eat ramens when I want a quick 40+g of carb and I am in a pinch).



I dont really eat frozen prepared foods, but every once in a while, if the macros and cals work and you enjoy it....why not?



Sorry man, you are off the deep end on this. Cold process, micro filtered (so the nucleopeptides are all still intact) is BY FAR a superior protein source. AND it has many many health benifits on top of just a good supply of nitrogen. In fact, search Pub-med and look at all the studies and health benifits of whey. Whey too many to count (pun intended) . By the way......Whey is a highly processed food, so that kinda shoots down your argument about "processed foods are not as good as whole food" thing.




Take the tinfoil hat off man. People say that in regards to they are higher in carbs than other green veggies. No one is getting fat off eating a few peas.



You dont seem to know, but I am no slouch. I have close to 20 years training experience, most of it naturally. For 45 I am decently strong, and no trouble controlling body composition.




You saved the best for last. Never have I seen worse advice than from Pro bodybuilders. Only advice I would take from a "pro" is how to be a "pro". It is almost laughable the relative intelligence level of some of these guys. I know several, and well.....they probably could not pass a high school nutrition class. Their training advice is overly reliant on anabolics, and just a repetition of some garbage someone once told them what to do.

I will not lump them all in this bucket, but I have never met a pro that even know basics of training. All they know is how to train with the assistance of anabolics....and very high levels of them. Watching the programs they have people doing, it is heavily biased to what they used to grow. Well most people are not running 1+g cycles with multiple compounds. But these guys will be happy to sell guys test for 150/10ml. Srs man......wtf would you take a pro bodybuilders advice for? Unless you have his genes (which are obviously great) AND wish to supplement at his levels.......the advice he gives you is pretty much worthless. Much like the contest prep the ones I know have people follow. "stay away from dairy....it makes you fat" "fruit makes you gain fat". These people are not the smartest guys man.


You obviously have achieved quite a bit....but maybe if you took the time to learn a little as well, you would find that your 'absolutes' are not so absolute. Many of your beliefs are outdated bro-lore.

That is not to take away from whay you have accomplished either, so respect to you there. Just saying.....you dont know me either, but I am no slouch myself. As much as you belive your ideas, they just dont hold much actual truth behind them.....

I guess there is nothing wrong with fat from chocolate either, eh? LOL.. Keep eating cheese, Ill keep eating avocados and drinking olive oil. Not to mention olive oil and avocados are heart healthy. Didnt know the cheese on pizza was a better option.
Don't get me wrong, Ill have a cheat meal and yes, Ill eat pizza, but I don't eat cheese everyday for a healthy fat choice.

Ramen noodles? Are you fucking serious? Do some research, those are preserved in a chemical thats in lighter fluid.. They don't even digest right.. Keep eating them though, I wouldn't know if they taste good or not.

As for peas, linked to weight gain, end of story. Simple google search would tell you that. Plus I know first hand, because I was stuck at 219lbs for almost 3 weeks and we couldn't figure out why? This was a few years ago..I was told to eat any green veggies as much as I wanted. Didnt read the fine print about the peas. I was literally eating bags of peas/pea pods.. Long story short, cut out the peas, switched to green beans, and the weight fell off instantly. 12lbs in about a month, simply swapping out the peas for green beans..

There is no debating, anytime you can eat whole food(Chix or Turkey or fish for protein) instead of a man made protein like whey protein powder, is a much better healthy choice. Plus you don't even know if your getting the right amounts, unless your having it tested.
Friend works for FDA, you would be surprised what she has told me she has found with supplement companies and there proteins, not even close to label claims.. So, Ill take egg whites any day of the week.

So my IFBB pro friends diet advice/knowledge is worthless, eh? I cant thank them enough for what their knowledge has done overall for my physique. Am I a gifted pro with their genetics? Hardly, but I get more compliments on my appearance and how I carry myself, ever since I started eating healthy and training smarter..
My body has been in state of ketosis for awhile now. I have veins all over the place..Im lean as fuck, and bigger overall then I was a few years ago. Not to mention a few lbs of solid muscle gains over the last few years, every year. I guess my friends don't know shit..LOL
Ive busted my ass to look the way I do, and its paid off..

And lastly fruit doesn't make you fat. Strawberries and blueberries are actually excellent carb choices, but what the fuck do I know.. Tell that to the veins in my stomach..

Have a nice weekend..

 

[macgyver]

I guess there is nothing wrong with fat from chocolate either, eh? LOL.. Keep eating cheese, Ill keep eating avocados and drinking olive oil. Not to mention olive oil and avocados are heart healthy. Didnt know the cheese on pizza was a better option.

Funny you mention that. I eat quite a bit of chocolate. I snack on 60% Ghirardelli chocolate chips. I got out of hand so I have tightened up on intake the past 3 weeks. (just tightening up for summer)

Don't get me wrong, Ill have a cheat meal and yes, Ill eat pizza, but I don't eat cheese everyday for a healthy fat choice.

I too make food choices based on overall health....but I leave room for things I love too.

Ramen noodles? Are you fucking serious? Do some research, those are preserved in a chemical thats in lighter fluid.. They don't even digest right.. Keep eating them though, I wouldn't know if they taste good or not.

Yes, I am serious...why not?.....45 g of easy carbs when I need them. I throw out the flavor packet and use 1/2tsb condensed beef stock. I balance sodium w/ 1/2 tsp of potassium chloride (negates the high sodium)

As for peas, linked to weight gain, end of story. Simple google search would tell you that. Plus I know first hand,.....the weight fell off instantly. 12lbs in about a month, simply swapping out the peas for green beans..

You realize how silly that sounds. If changing from peas to green beans solely caused you to drop 12 lbs in a month, you must have been eating A SH!T ton of peas.

Lets do some math..... 1lbs of fat loss is a 3500 cal deficit
12bls loss is 42000 cals
42000 cals / 30 days =1400 cal per day


BUT it is not 1400 cal in peas....if what you are saying is true, you need a 1400 cal difference switching from peas to green beans


Per USDA

1oog of green beans is 31cal
100g peas is 80 cal (aprox 2.6 times as calorie dense....I'll give you that).

BUT to wind up with a 1400 cal difference just from the switch.....


drum roll please
To result in the cal difference to be responsible for a 12lb weight loss you would have to have been eating over 6.6lbs of peas a day and then switch to green beans.. Srs man....you question my knowledge of nutrition and make statements like the above?

There is no debating, anytime you can eat whole food(Chix or Turkey or fish for protein) instead of a man made protein like whey protein powder, is a much better healthy choice. Plus you don't even know if your getting the right amounts, unless your having it tested.
Friend works for FDA, you would be surprised what she has told me she has found with supplement companies and there proteins, not even close to label claims.. So, Ill take egg whites any day of the week.

Let the consumer beware. I actually use only pure unflavored whey isolate for that reason. But good point. Definitely worth staying with higher quality brands. And as a source of nitrogen, whey is truly superior, but whole foods are great too. What is great about whey is it allows one to hit higher protein levels without the added fats (if cals are a concern). I get about 1/3 of my daily protein from whey. I have for the past 8 years. I eat 220g +/- every single day. For those that say they get all their protein from meat, I call bs. (these are the same guys who claim to eat 300+ grams a day as well). To get that from whole food, that is eating OVER 3lbs of meat a day..>EVERY DAY. (lean proteins @ 6g/ oz uncooked). I eat 1lb of lean meat a day, the rest comes from whey and dairy.

So my IFBB pro friends diet advice/knowledge is worthless, eh? I cant thank them enough for what their knowledge has done overall for my physique. Am I a gifted pro with their genetics? Hardly, but I get more compliments on my appearance and how I carry myself, ever since I started eating healthy and training smarter..

You have a great build man. No doubt. Just trying to share info with you. If you are not open to it, that is fine. I have been at this a while, and I used to believe many of the same things you believe. I then learned just how most of my beliefs were unproven dogma and very little science-based.

I am no slouch either. I'm 45 and been back training 8 years. Last year had a lot of personal challenges for me and about the only thing I did consistently was make it in the gym. My diet sucked. Like the above is nothing. I was under quite a bit of stress, and just eating to make it through the days. Anything....often fast food 4-5 times a week. I was going through 2 gal of icecream a week. ( ate it4-5 nights a week). Cookies, ....you name it. I was working 7 days a week and most days 12-14 hours so I just did what I had to do to get by.

It is only the last few weeks I have pulled my diet back in check. The past year was essentially a write off for me. But here is where I am now:
5'9 200lbs, 600+ deadlift, 500+ squat, and 400+ bench. I dont train heavy much lately...but have retained my strength. (I took two years off deads and tripled 585 after 5 workouts back).
I do most of this on natural levels of androgens. I was lifetime natural until a few year back but had to go on TRT. Having the ability to have supplemental hormones has allowed me to be about 10lbs heavier than I could even hold naturally at lower bf levels. Buy I have never done anything more than what most would consider a "beginner" cycle. (no hate for others who make other choices.....that is just how I approach my training)

These pics were taken last week, just two weeks into correcting my diet. Not great and I still have a ways to go....but I no slob either. (despite how you think my eating habits would have me look)

My body has been in state of ketosis for awhile now. I have veins all over the place..Im lean as fuck, and bigger overall then I was a few years ago. Not to mention a few lbs of solid muscle gains over the last few years, every year. I guess my friends don't know shit..LOL

I ate keto for over 2 years back in 93-94. I was a ckd diet so I understand the veins popping. I have a few veins myself. My legs are not popping in the pics above as I have been eating low carb and I took those pics cold. But when I am warm, people say my legs look pretty good. My abs veins are just beginning to show again....but I just started monitoring intake again.... Slow and steady for me.

Ive busted my ass to look the way I do, and its paid off..

And lastly fruit doesn't make you fat. Strawberries and blueberries are actually excellent carb choices, but what the fuck do I know.. Tell that to the veins in my stomach..

Have a nice weekend..

Again, you look great from the pics I have seen. But having a great physique does not mean that the only way to get it is with brown rice and chicken breast. Just have a good exchange of info is worth it for me. I am sure I could learn a lot from you. I dont know that I would apply much of your nutrition knowledge though.

FWIW, I actually do eat a diet rich in good food choices. Choosing to eat lesser or totally unprocessed foods over lesser quality foods. But I have learned that calories are calories. Does not matter if from pop tarts or green beans. This past year was the worst I have eaten in almost a decade. Fast food, Mexican lunch almost 3-4 times a week, icecreams and cookies daily.... What is weird is my blood work showed no ill effects. I have been getting bloodwork and annual physicals for over 10 years. My total cholesterol this past year went up slightly....to 140. My raito was still 3.5. My triglycerides were <50. BP 115-70. (except for elevated levels that come from training heavy and eating a high protein diet), there was almost zero negative impact of eating ramen noodles 3-4 times a week. I am through that crisis period, so now that I have more time, I prepare foods again ...etc. But I still make room for things I like (even when in a deficit). I ate icecream and pizza last night.

No worries man. As I have said many times. I can tell you work you a$$ off. Just sharing that you can eat some cheese if you want. You are not going to loose what you have worked so hard for!

 

[Jin]

I'm not taking anyone's side here.

I will, however, say this: Macgyver has some very above average genetics.

He may be able to get away with more than the average guy in this board.

I won't be snacking on chocolate chips and looking like that!

 

[macgyver]

I'm not taking anyone's side here.

I will, however, say this: Macgyver has some very above average genetics.

He may be able to get away with more than the average guy in this board.

I won't be snacking on chocolate chips and looking like that!

Jin

I will take that as a compliment....but while I am blessed with a good training response, and have always been on the stronger side for a smaller guy.....being lean was NOT something that came naturally for me. I have NEVER been a lean person...even when younger.

This was me about 10 years ago trying to get back in the gym after a decade off. I dropped 15lbs before I took my first pic...so I was actually quite a bit heavier.


I started re-learning all that I thought I knew about nutrition.


First 11 weeks of eating for a purpose. BTW....I ate icecream 2 times a week during this cut, as well as pizza pasta and fruit and dairy daily. It is all portion control.
I had not idea at the time I was doing this but I was Hypo-thyroid AND had test levels below the bottom of the scale. (Suffered a TBI a year earlier. Almost got killed and broke my neck as well)

My first year of training (again still with undiagnosed low-t and hypo thyroid)

About a year later, I figured out I had low test because I still felt like crap even being in great shape again. This was the last pic of me still natural

I then spent the next 3 years either on a 300-400 cal surplus or a 500-700 deficit. I was never the same weight twice. I was able to fill out my frame a little more including along with the help of bumping my TRT from time to time.

I'll spare the pics, but I eventually gave up on bulk/cut as my gains stopped coming and spending 4 months eating up and then dieting back down got old. Even with 600mg test added in and trying some smaller amounts of other stuff, my growth just tapped out.

This was my last "bulk" just over 2 years ago. I'm 5'9 and I topped out at 235

I then gave up 'bulk/cut' and have just concentrated on staying in decent shape year round.


I learned enough about nutrition and what actually effects fat loss and gain by spending 5+ years counting every macro, weighing and tracking everything I ate......that I just applied it to allow me to maintain and still enjoy life. As an example at my level of obsession on manipulating food, this is a scan of the post-it notes off my desk of the 2 years experimenting will all sorts of difference combos of macro ratios, along with carb cycling AND even fat cycling. When I say I have put a lot of time into this, I am not joking

In the end, I have learned to keep a middle ground without getting too far off track. This last pic is this past winter, where I was letting my weight drift up and really eating poorly. This is about as "bad" as I let myself get now. It is not lucky genes.....it is just knowing how to manipulate food and cal levels. A little observation, as men, we gain and loose VAT (visceral fat) much quicker than sub-q. The key (to long-term good conditioning that is easy to maintain) is dropping the sub slowly over several cuts, each one a little deeper, but not so much you sacrifice too much mass or rebound). Then WHEN your weight drifts up, it is mostly VAT. You need to correct BEFORE the skin folds start picking up. If not, you will on a yo-yo forever. It takes discipline, but you can then allow yourself to have buffers and still live a little, while staying in shape year round.

 

[Jin]

Jin

I will take that as a compliment....but while I am blessed with a good training response, and have always been on the stronger side for a smaller guy.....being lean was NOT something that came naturally for me. I have NEVER been a lean person...even when younger.

This was me about 10 years ago trying to get back in the gym after a decade off. I dropped 15lbs before I took my first pic...so I was actually quite a bit heavier.


I started re-learning all that I thought I knew about nutrition.


First 11 weeks of eating for a purpose. BTW....I ate icecream 2 times a week during this cut, as well as pizza pasta and fruit and dairy daily. It is all portion control.
I had not idea at the time I was doing this but I was Hypo-thyroid AND had test levels below the bottom of the scale. (Suffered a TBI a year earlier. Almost got killed and broke my neck as well)

My first year of training (again still with undiagnosed low-t and hypo thyroid)

About a year later, I figured out I had low test because I still felt like crap even being in great shape again. This was the last pic of me still natural

I then spent the next 3 years either on a 300-400 cal surplus or a 500-700 deficit. I was never the same weight twice. I was able to fill out my frame a little more including along with the help of bumping my TRT from time to time.

I'll spare the pics, but I eventually gave up on bulk/cut as my gains stopped coming and spending 4 months eating up and then dieting back down got old. Even with 600mg test added in and trying some smaller amounts of other stuff, my growth just tapped out.

This was my last "bulk" just over 2 years ago. I'm 5'9 and I topped out at 235

I then gave up 'bulk/cut' and have just concentrated on staying in decent shape year round.


I learned enough about nutrition and what actually effects fat loss and gain by spending 5+ years counting every macro, weighing and tracking everything I ate......that I just applied it to allow me to maintain and still enjoy life. As an example at my level of obsession on manipulating food, this is a scan of the post-it notes off my desk of the 2 years experimenting will all sorts of difference combos of macro ratios, along with carb cycling AND even fat cycling. When I say I have put a lot of time into this, I am not joking

In the end, I have learned to keep a middle ground without getting too far off track. This last pic is this past winter, where I was letting my weight drift up and really eating poorly. This is about as "bad" as I let myself get now. It is not lucky genes.....it is just knowing how to manipulate food and cal levels. A little observation, as men, we gain and loose VAT (visceral fat) much quicker than sub-q. The key (to long-term good conditioning that is easy to maintain) is dropping the sub slowly over several cuts, each one a little deeper, but not so much you sacrifice too much mass or rebound). Then WHEN your weight drifts up, it is mostly VAT. You need to correct BEFORE the skin folds start picking up. If not, you will on a yo-yo forever. It takes discipline, but you can then allow yourself to have buffers and still live a little, while staying in shape year round.

Thank you for the detailed response. I had a similar build as you did after a decade off. You do respond very well to training!

I'm still trying to get my diet down. Portion control is key, you are right.

It's not that chocolate chips cannot be a decent snack, it's just that it's much harder to stop eating them than it is eating rice. Maybe it's not the genetics I lack but the self control.

I'm still only 4 years back from training and 2 years of non-hypogonadal training. I'm very inspired by older guys who are in better shape than I and still progressing. Thank you.

 

[macgyver]

Thank you for the detailed response. I had a similar build as you did after a decade off. You do respond very well to training!

I'm still trying to get my diet down. Portion control is key, you are right.

It's not that chocolate chips cannot be a decent snack, it's just that it's much harder to stop eating them than it is eating rice. Maybe it's not the genetics I lack but the self control.

I'm still only 4 years back from training and 2 years of non-hypogonadal training. I'm very inspired by older guys who are in better shape than I and still progressing. Thank you.

There were so many that helped me when I came back and gave me motivation and advice. If I can even pass any small amount on, it is my debt to pay back. I am an IIFYM (If it fits your macros), believer. I have seen and lived it. I was blown away at the idea years back and sure these people must be smoking crack (or have freaky metabolisms....). I then gave it a shot and realized just how easy it is to control the direction of one's training.

When this is progress to be made, TOTAL intake (and meeting min macro requirements) will have the largest impact upon success. Even larger than programs, rep/set progression, AND EVEN bigger than dosages of AAS. In the end, our bodies do not make LBM out of thin air! We have to eat at a surplus to gain mass. (Outside the newbie gain period where one can by all means drop fat and gain muscle at the same time). After you are out of that window.....it is pick a goal.

'Recomping' can happen, but it is EXTREMELY slow. I spent about 4 months doing a 'recomp' experiment when I still had progress to make, and it was a TOTAL waste of time. I then added only 200 cals a day in, and BOOM, within a week my lifts all started to rise again. It was pretty crazy. Somewhere I have a spreadsheet where I tracked cals, strength and body weight. (I used to get crazy with tracking trying to refine my progress as best I can). I did about any variation of things I could try.

It is food that holds back most people.

I found that for me, a 250cal/day surplus was ideal. (even when I was running test). That is 1/2lb / week gain. Out of a new growth phase, or notwithstanding doing mega dose cycles, you want to keep food where it is enough of a surplus where you can guarantee you are actually in a surplus EVERY DAY. (below 250 cal it gets into the margin of error in measuring and probably not possible to run anything smaller with full certainty), and it is not so large that you pick up too much fat. Fat gain, in excess is your enemy. At some point you will have to lose it.....and regardless of what anabolics you are taking, you are bound to lose some mass in the process.

I'd be happy to offer any advice if you think it would help. A food scale is your best friend. I used Myfitness pal for 4-5 years. Have not used in some time....but it was easy to put in my custom meals that I knew the macros were right.

Looking back, I think I did the best I could to get back. I am now benifiting from the crazy time I put in learning to eat. I too laugh at myself and how flexible I can eat now. It was not always this way. Like I said, once you shed it, you can get a little loose for a while without the sub-q coming back. As long as you keep an eye on VAT (which essentially is your waist), you will learn when you need to pull the reigns in.

Best of luck....if I can offer any help, I would be glad to!

Mac

 

[ItalianMuscle]

Funny you mention that. I eat quite a bit of chocolate. I snack on 60% Ghirardelli chocolate chips. I got out of hand so I have tightened up on intake the past 3 weeks. (just tightening up for summer)




I too make food choices based on overall health....but I leave room for things I love too.



Yes, I am serious...why not?.....45 g of easy carbs when I need them. I throw out the flavor packet and use 1/2tsb condensed beef stock. I balance sodium w/ 1/2 tsp of potassium chloride (negates the high sodium)





You realize how silly that sounds. If changing from peas to green beans solely caused you to drop 12 lbs in a month, you must have been eating A SH!T ton of peas.

Lets do some math..... 1lbs of fat loss is a 3500 cal deficit
12bls loss is 42000 cals
42000 cals / 30 days =1400 cal per day


BUT it is not 1400 cal in peas....if what you are saying is true, you need a 1400 cal difference switching from peas to green beans


Per USDA

1oog of green beans is 31cal
100g peas is 80 cal (aprox 2.6 times as calorie dense....I'll give you that).

BUT to wind up with a 1400 cal difference just from the switch.....


drum roll please
To result in the cal difference to be responsible for a 12lb weight loss you would have to have been eating over 6.6lbs of peas a day and then switch to green beans.. Srs man....you question my knowledge of nutrition and make statements like the above?




Let the consumer beware. I actually use only pure unflavored whey isolate for that reason. But good point. Definitely worth staying with higher quality brands. And as a source of nitrogen, whey is truly superior, but whole foods are great too. What is great about whey is it allows one to hit higher protein levels without the added fats (if cals are a concern). I get about 1/3 of my daily protein from whey. I have for the past 8 years. I eat 220g +/- every single day. For those that say they get all their protein from meat, I call bs. (these are the same guys who claim to eat 300+ grams a day as well). To get that from whole food, that is eating OVER 3lbs of meat a day..>EVERY DAY. (lean proteins @ 6g/ oz uncooked). I eat 1lb of lean meat a day, the rest comes from whey and dairy.




You have a great build man. No doubt. Just trying to share info with you. If you are not open to it, that is fine. I have been at this a while, and I used to believe many of the same things you believe. I then learned just how most of my beliefs were unproven dogma and very little science-based.

I am no slouch either. I'm 45 and been back training 8 years. Last year had a lot of personal challenges for me and about the only thing I did consistently was make it in the gym. My diet sucked. Like the above is nothing. I was under quite a bit of stress, and just eating to make it through the days. Anything....often fast food 4-5 times a week. I was going through 2 gal of icecream a week. ( ate it4-5 nights a week). Cookies, ....you name it. I was working 7 days a week and most days 12-14 hours so I just did what I had to do to get by.

It is only the last few weeks I have pulled my diet back in check. The past year was essentially a write off for me. But here is where I am now:
5'9 200lbs, 600+ deadlift, 500+ squat, and 400+ bench. I dont train heavy much lately...but have retained my strength. (I took two years off deads and tripled 585 after 5 workouts back).
I do most of this on natural levels of androgens. I was lifetime natural until a few year back but had to go on TRT. Having the ability to have supplemental hormones has allowed me to be about 10lbs heavier than I could even hold naturally at lower bf levels. Buy I have never done anything more than what most would consider a "beginner" cycle. (no hate for others who make other choices.....that is just how I approach my training)

These pics were taken last week, just two weeks into correcting my diet. Not great and I still have a ways to go....but I no slob either. (despite how you think my eating habits would have me look)

I ate keto for over 2 years back in 93-94. I was a ckd diet so I understand the veins popping. I have a few veins myself. My legs are not popping in the pics above as I have been eating low carb and I took those pics cold. But when I am warm, people say my legs look pretty good. My abs veins are just beginning to show again....but I just started monitoring intake again.... Slow and steady for me.



Again, you look great from the pics I have seen. But having a great physique does not mean that the only way to get it is with brown rice and chicken breast. Just have a good exchange of info is worth it for me. I am sure I could learn a lot from you. I dont know that I would apply much of your nutrition knowledge though.

FWIW, I actually do eat a diet rich in good food choices. Choosing to eat lesser or totally unprocessed foods over lesser quality foods. But I have learned that calories are calories. Does not matter if from pop tarts or green beans. This past year was the worst I have eaten in almost a decade. Fast food, Mexican lunch almost 3-4 times a week, icecreams and cookies daily.... What is weird is my blood work showed no ill effects. I have been getting bloodwork and annual physicals for over 10 years. My total cholesterol this past year went up slightly....to 140. My raito was still 3.5. My triglycerides were <50. BP 115-70. (except for elevated levels that come from training heavy and eating a high protein diet), there was almost zero negative impact of eating ramen noodles 3-4 times a week. I am through that crisis period, so now that I have more time, I prepare foods again ...etc. But I still make room for things I like (even when in a deficit). I ate icecream and pizza last night.

No worries man. As I have said many times. I can tell you work you a$$ off. Just sharing that you can eat some cheese if you want. You are not going to loose what you have worked so hard for!

Very easy to eat 300g of protein with just meat. Not sure where you get your info from. 4 ounces of chicken has around 35g of protein. I eat chicken 4x per day, 6-7 ounces per meal. Not including the dozen egg whites in the morning, and 7-8ounces of lean sirloin at night. I can easily switch out egg whites, and all my protein would be well over 300g with meat alone. And I only eat 6x per day. Could easily do 7, but Id be taking in too many calories to get leaner..
In my opinion, whey protein is garbage. I dont care who makes it. Anytime you can eat whole food instead of drinking it, is better. If your in a pinch, by all means, if you need a protein shake, drink it I guess. I never leave my house without at least 2 meals in my lunch box. I leave for work with minimum of 4.

I never said you were a slouch, and you have a nice build. You could easily tighten up even more, by making better food choices, thats all Im saying. I can get better myself as well. Ive been dieting for 20 weeks now. Started at 232, got down to 204, and back around 211 this morning. My friend is tinkering around with anabolics and carbs right now for me, will see what happens in about 6 weeks.



I don't believe for one second that calories are calories. You can't sit there and tell me, that if you consumed a diet of pop tarts, chocolate cake and cookies of 2500 calories, that you are going to look the same as a guy thats eating egg whites, chicken, brown rice and olive oil. Im a firm believer you are what you eat. 99% of the people that train in my gym look the same as they did 4-5 years ago. No muscle growth whatsoever, or they actually gained weight and are fatter now. Not tooting my own horn, but Ive gained lean quality muscle over the past 5 years. Nothing drastic like 20-30lbs, but enough to notice a significant improvement in my physique.
And here is the kicker, I don't do any cardio. I lose and gain all my weight with food only.
But Im still learning. Been learning from a number of pros over the years, and I keep learning new stuff and trying new approaches and see if one works better then the other. Carb cycling/manipulating works best for me..
Same goes with anabolics. I don't use half of what I used to use. I laugh when I see guys on the forums posting these ridiculous cycles with 2g of test, etc. I just keep my mouth shut and carry on..

I would post pics, but I don't need problems. I went on a tattoo binge a few years ago, and now have 2 full arm sleeves, back 75% done, and stomach completed a few months ago. So, pics of me will never be posted online ever again..

 

[macgyver]

Very easy to eat 300g of protein with just meat. Not sure where you get your info from. 4 ounces of chicken has around 35g of protein. I eat chicken 4x per day, 6-7 ounces per meal. Not including the dozen egg whites in the morning, and 7-8ounces of lean sirloin at night. I can easily switch out egg whites, and all my protein would be well over 300g with meat alone. And I only eat 6x per day. Could easily do 7, but Id be taking in too many calories to get leaner..
In my opinion, whey protein is garbage. I dont care who makes it. Anytime you can eat whole food instead of drinking it, is better. If your in a pinch, by all means, if you need a protein shake, drink it I guess. I never leave my house without at least 2 meals in my lunch box. I leave for work with minimum of 4.

I never said you were a slouch, and you have a nice build. You could easily tighten up even more, by making better food choices, thats all Im saying. I can get better myself as well. Ive been dieting for 20 weeks now. Started at 232, got down to 204, and back around 211 this morning. My friend is tinkering around with anabolics and carbs right now for me, will see what happens in about 6 weeks.



I don't believe for one second that calories are calories. You can't sit there and tell me, that if you consumed a diet of pop tarts, chocolate cake and cookies of 2500 calories, that you are going to look the same as a guy thats eating egg whites, chicken, brown rice and olive oil. Im a firm believer you are what you eat. 99% of the people that train in my gym look the same as they did 4-5 years ago. No muscle growth whatsoever, or they actually gained weight and are fatter now. Not tooting my own horn, but Ive gained lean quality muscle over the past 5 years. Nothing drastic like 20-30lbs, but enough to notice a significant improvement in my physique.
And here is the kicker, I don't do any cardio. I lose and gain all my weight with food only.
But Im still learning. Been learning from a number of pros over the years, and I keep learning new stuff and trying new approaches and see if one works better then the other. Carb cycling/manipulating works best for me..
Same goes with anabolics. I don't use half of what I used to use. I laugh when I see guys on the forums posting these ridiculous cycles with 2g of test, etc. I just keep my mouth shut and carry on..

I would post pics, but I don't need problems. I went on a tattoo binge a few years ago, and now have 2 full arm sleeves, back 75% done, and stomach completed a few months ago. So, pics of me will never be posted online ever again..

IM

I am not busting your chops AT ALL, but your numbers are a little off. Sorry man....they just are.

Chicken is +/- 6g of protein per oz uncooked.

Link to USDA site if you want to check me:
https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/...up=chicken+breast&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing=


BTW....great site for finding nutrition of just about anything: https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list?home=true

They have 100g @ 22.5g pro. 100g is 3.5oz. So per usda that is 22.5g/3.5oz or 6.4g/oz
4oz of chicken=25g pro.

So if you want to run though your intake;
4x per day chicken @ 7oz/breast. =42g x4 =168

Egg whites only have about 3.5 g protein. (6g/whole egg).

10-12 egg whites= 35-40 grams protein.

Last, your 6-7 oz of sirloin has just under 6g pro/oz. So that is aprox 40grams there

That total intake is aprox 250




No biggie, that is a great amount of protein. I was just saying most people who think they eat 300g per day dont even come close. (250 is pretty close if you really eat that each and every day) You are doing fantastic.

I choose whey for a large portion of my protein. There really is no disputing that high quality whey protein is BY FAR the most bio available. (not to mention the MANY health benefits of it) But truthfully I dont use it becasue it is the "best" I just dont see myself eating that much chicken and 3 lbs of meat a day is not realistic for me. (I generally avg 220g / day). So whey helps me round out my macros.



Sure I could look tighter. Did you miss where I said I am just 2 weeks into starting pulling cals back after a year of eating like crap. I can look just fine (and leave room for icecream). I too do not rely on cardio for fat loss. But I should do more really just for general DV health. I usually squeeze in 2 45 min LISS sessions when school is in, since I workout while waiting on my daughters dance classes which run longer than I can lift


This was just over a year ago...before I fcame into a year where work and personal life took it's toll on my eating ( I still never skipped the gym but ate like total crap for almost a whole year) In these pic I am not the leanest, but I would call it decent shape. Just enjoying weekend cookouts with a few beers, eating pizza, pasta, icecream....all in moderation.

I am not posting pics because I feel I look great. I am tougher on myself than anyone will ever be. As a matte of fact, I always quit my diets before I ever really reach where I want to get. I keep saying every year, I want to get in real good shape, and then most times I stop short. But for living a balanced life, I feel I am in decent shape. For 45 and being a guy who spends 6 days a week running my kids to all their activities, I'm OK with where Iam at. Of course I think I could do better, but I try to keep a healthy balance in my life. However I am pushing now again, and found some new motivation to hold a decent deficit. So we will see if I can carry my current deficit far enough to really hit the level I would like to.

As I said, much respect to you and I know what you have accomplished. There is little doubt to me you have experience. I am just telling you that many of your ideas on nutrition are based more on dogma rather than science.

This is one of the guys who first turned me on to flexible dieting. Kane Sumabat. Just to show how extreme IIFYM could be taken, he dieted down to contest shape eating only fried chicken and crispy 2 dozen Kreme donughts per week. (he supplemented whey to hit his protein macros). He also did blood work before and after. He is almost 50 now but did that diet a few years back.
http://www.simplyshredded.com/kane-sumabat.html


I can see I am not going to change your mind..... Thats cool. Just be aware that some of the ideas you think are set in stone, might not really hold water. If you enjoy them, great. My only issue arises when people give others advice which is....well not really in keeping with what science and even anecdotal evidence has proven over and over. (yes, believe it or not, there have been studies that show for a standardized calorie intake, pure sucrose resulted in identical rates of fat loss and gain when those same amout of carbs came from complex sources).

If you care to read about stuff, check out a guy named Alan Aragon. He MIGHT make you reconsider some of your ideas. Either way...you are doing great man....keep it up!

 

[Littleguy]

"I would post pics, but I don't need problems. I went on a tattoo binge a few years ago, and now have 2 full arm sleeves, back 75% done, and stomach completed a few months ago. So, pics of me will never be posted online ever again.."


I would post pics too, but I am presently a fatass and too ashamed of myself to do so lol
I in my 38 years of training have tried EVERY diet method ever contrived from the strictest FRESH only, every item measured to the ounce and microed and macroed etc........to the I was young and trained for 2 1/2 hours straight and went to the endless buffets and stuffed myself full of all the different protein sources available.
I have been up to 248# with a 34" waist and never ran any high doses to get there either.

All this to say, I was dining (actually breakfast...lol) with none other than Fred Hatfield in Honolulu at the Sheraton Waikiki in 1984 when his very fatassed self said to me "a calorie is a calorie" as he finished his breakfast with a couple of 3 musketeer bars.
I was just a pup and weighed about 160# at the time haha but looking at him I questioned the validity of the statement healthwise and certainly physique wise

I have also heard the old adage that bodybuilding is 70% nutrition.........a really dumb statement all in all as my response is okay then you EAT like a bodybuilder and don't train at all and Mr Assclown will train like an ANIMAL and eat whatever he wants and we shall see who wins
Well of course training like an animal may mean different things to different people but I assure you if i am the Assclown err I mean ANIMAL then your 70% diet will not stand a chance.

Healthy eating is of course better for you if you plan and are GUARANTEED to live to be 100 years old, None of us have any guarantee of even the next few moments so if you want a piece of cheese eat it, if you love dipping Ezekiel bread in the olive oil you have spread all over your body and eating it then so be it
(some of you will get that)
The powdered whey from high quality tested sources is very hard to beat dollar for dollar and nothing else comes close to it for convenience, I use it every single day myself.
I eat what I want when I want it, fortunately, I don't like crappy food so that helps me to be good to myself, a very rare ice cream or super thin crusted artisan pizza is as far as I go as my wife and I are freaks about being fit anyway, tons of ground chicken and turkey, fish, beef now and then, lots of salads all the time, Greek yogurt, rice cakes topped with homemade humus and low fat microwave popcorn by the case. ( she eats air-popped)
gallons of lemonade made with that chic brand crystal light product is my chaser and by choice never a drop of alcohol crosses these lips as I have seen it destroy too many lives.

When taking advice I always look at the source etc, tough to argue with macs pics of course, IM has been around quite awhile and has posted a few years ago some respectable pics of him in vegas so who knows what is best for the OP perhaps a hybrid of the 2 is best for him.
Either way the REAL secret is don't eat like a 4th grader that gets to pick whatever he likes, and be VERY CONSISTENT in your training AND diet.
And don't let LK seduce you with his "special" brownies and his Princess Leah outfit shennanigan he pulls on the unsupected souls he encounters

(PS I am not really THAT much of a fatass right now)
Cheers

 

[Littleguy]

OOPS

 

[Jin]

This is a great thread. Would love others to chime in. I think we might have lost OP though.....