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Letro + nolva + clomid for gyno

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paxman1

Member
Jul 8, 2013
21
0
I've had puberty gyno, naturally occured, for over 5 years. Recently I started to taking 20 mg nolvadex per day and also 50 mg clomid for a while, but now I dropped clomid since I've heard that it doesn't do any good in stack with nolvadex. Since I haven't noticed any changes whatsoever so far, I'm getting letrozole. I still have some nolvadex and clomid left, so I was wondering if I could stack them with letro? I've heard that nolva supress letro effect, but on the other hand, I've heard that this is just a myth. Please, argument this.

This is what I've thought for:
1.25 mg letro per day untill gyno is gone (2.5 mg if 1.25 mg won't work)
20 mg nolva per day alongside
50 mg clomid per day alongside

Tappering down:
1st week: 0.625 mg letro, 20 mg nolva, 50 mg clomid
2nd week: 0.3125 mg letro, 20 mg nolva, 25 mg clomid
3rd week: 20 mg nolva, 25 mg clomid
4th week: 10 mg nolva

What do you think guys?
 
GreatGunz

GreatGunz

VIP
Jun 10, 2011
1,667
167
Letro will take care of it you don't need the rest, do not start at 1.25mg start at .25 mg and up it by .25 after a few days.
I had a lump the size of a peanut and did letro this way the lump is gone and I never went over .50 mg .
Letro is strong make sure u taper down when ur done
 
B

Bigwhite

MuscleHead
Mar 20, 2013
2,107
272
You are sticking a fire hose in a dark room just in case there is a fire. Get blood work done (female panel) and see if where you are!!
 
Get Some

Get Some

MuscleHead
Sep 9, 2010
3,442
648
Once you get gyno, it will NEVER go away unless you get surgery to remove the affected glands. You can definitely lessen the appearance of lumps but there is always the chance for an occasional flare up. Aromasin may be best suited for what you are looking to do. Nolvadex will not remove bonds already made between androgenic hormones and enzymes. Clomid doesn't act directly on breast tissue, only internally via the hypothalamus.

So, in short... If you use letro alone, be careful. It's easy to take your E2 levels to a dangerous spot below the norm.
My recommendation? Aromasin E3D to start and adjust accordingly after 2 weeks.

Oh and yes, get some tests done!
 
Lizard King

Lizard King

Administrator
Staff Member
Sep 9, 2010
14,536
7,974
Are you self diagnosing or have you seen a physician? Go see a doctor.
 
P

paxman1

Member
Jul 8, 2013
21
0
I've already been at endocrinologist and he confirmed that I have gyno. This has been confirmed with ultrasound as well. However, I won't get any prescriptions at all because he said that AI's could be potentially cancerogenous for prostate, which is very weird information. Anyway, it's normal to NOT get treated for gyno in our country unless you pay 2000 euros for operation or you have extremely big gyno. I am completely on my own now and there's no way to change doctor's opinion. Believe me, I put a lot effort in that.

Urine was normal (within ranges), here's blood test:
S-PTH 22 ng/L
s-testosterone 10,8 nmol/L (about 317 ng/dL)
s-lh 1,5 UI/L
s-fsh 2,2 IU/L
s-tsh 2,77 mU/L
s-ft3 5,2 pmol/L
s-ft4 13,6 pmol/L
prolactin (POOL and PEG) 8,5 ug/L

Please don't ask me for reference ranges because I didn't get them, which is also weird. I just compared them to the ones on wikipedia and the most disturbing is that my T is bordering to hypogonadism, which is why I suggested clomid in the first place. Would it be wise to use it in that case? Oh, and about T, his opinion was that I won't get any prescriptions because they could make gyno worse. However, I would get them if my T was below 10 nmol/L. I'm getting tested next year again, that's the best I could negotiate out.

So yeah, I would greatly appreciate you help.
 
Austinite

Austinite

Member
Sep 21, 2013
40
11
Doesn't seem like i have enough posts to input links, so I'll Include PMID's...

Letrozole is an aromatase inhibitor. One of the most powerful aromatase inhibitors available today. Far too many people are considering this method because many moons ago it was touted as a good tool for reversal. We've learned a lot since then and Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERM) studies on gynecomastia reversal are readily available for confirmation.

I did a short experiment myself recently when my E2 came back at 46 pg/mL (Range < 29 for a sensitive E2 assay). I did not experience gynecomastia, but I wanted to bring that down back to range. The increase was likely due to switching my Testosterone Therapy administrations from subcutaneous (SubQ) to intramuscular (IM). IM injections have more of an impact on E2 due to faster absorption. This result came about on July 2nd. I had a Letrozole prescription laying around and figured I'd give it a go. It's been so long since I've used Letrozole. My prescription was for 100 microgram capsules.

I administered 100 mcg. (Micrograms) daily. After the 10th day I felt miserable and so I discontinued use. One week after I stopped, I tested E2 again and it came back 2 pg/mL. Remember, this is a full week after Letrozole was discontinued. So it had to be at zero, or "too low to count" for several days. I was bedridden for several days. Completely useless and couldn't find a reason to get up and about. If you've killed your E2 before, you know exactly what I mean. I don't wish this on anyone. Really amazes me that some folks are running this thing using milligram after milligram several times per week. And these "Gynecomastia Reversal" threads using these astronomical doses are just mind boggling. Pretty eye opening once again. Anyway, I waited a while and got back on DIM.

The entire letrozole for gynecomastia reversal came about in 2001 when a study was published. This study was done on mice, not humans. So don't be a mouse, be a man. Refer to PMID: 11850204 if you want to look it up.

To give you an example of how low this drug is supposed to be dosed, it was studied in extremely obese hypogonadal men. Overweight men convert far more estrogen than non-overweight men. This is because they carry far more aromatase enzymes. Using Letrozole, these highly aromatizing men were treated with doses of 2mg to 2.5mg once per week. If we break that up, you're looking at about 285 micrograms per day. That's it. This powerful drug never, under any circumstances should be used in a milligram + basis on a daily administered protocol. It is simply outrageous. See PMID 18426834 for reference.

Let's look at some more recent studies:

Dated: 2011 - Effects of aromatase inhibition on male breast

Tamoxifen was much more effective, however, in the prevention of gynecomastia in these men. Due to these disappointing results, aromatase inhibitors are not recommended as a first-line treatment for gynecomastia in men.

^ View PMC3143915 on NBIC website for the source of the excerpt above.


Dated: 2004 - Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia

Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. No side effects were seen in any patients.

^ View PMID 15238910 on pubmed website for the source of the excerpt above.


Dated: 2004 - Management of physiological gynaecomastia with tamoxifen

Thirty-six men accepted tamoxifen for physiological gynaecomastia. They were offered oral tamoxifen 20mg once daily for 6-12 weeks. Oral tamoxifen is an effective treatment for physiological gynaecomastia, especially for the lump type.

^ View PMID 14759718 on pubmed website for the source of the excerpt above.

So we've learned a couple things here. We know that an Aromatase Inhibitor is a poor choice, and we also learned that SERM's are more effective, safer and with no side effects. Lastly, we learned that while Tamoxifen is effective, it is superseded by the superior SERM; Raloxifene.

Aromatase inhibitors are not selective and will demolish your estradiol levels with prolonged use, rendering you miserable and useless. In the case of Letrozole, you could deplete your E2 levels to nothing in no time. SERMs like Tamoxifen and Raloxifene are pure antagonist in the E receptor in breast tissue. This is what mainly makes a SERM the clinically preferred drug for gynecomastia reversal.

TO REVERSE GYNECOMASTIA WITH SERMS:

Raloxifene: 60mg daily. You should see improvement in approx. 4 to 6 weeks. If not increase by 20 mg for every 3 weeks, never to exceed 100mg daily.

Tamoxifen: 40mg daily for once week. Then 20mg daily until gynecomastia is reversed.

Both protocols above will take time. This is not a 2 week process. Reversal will require patience. But it most certainly is effective, side-effect-free and cost incredibly effective when compared to surgery.
 
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