Lab results before/after 6 weeks of Enclomiphene (give input if you have it)

[myosin]

Note- I didn't say "at all"... I said, "not that much"

Enclomiphene led to a median testosterone increase of 166 ng/dL, which was not statistically significant compared to clomiphene. Enclomiphene resulted in a statistically significantly lower increase in estradiol levels compared to clomiphene

This study provides evidence that enclomiphene, can increase testosterone levels without raising estradiol levels.

Safety and efficacy of enclomiphene and clomiphene for hypogonadal men - Saffati - Translational Andrology and Urology

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[DogMogul]

Note- I didn't say "at all"... I said, "not that much"

Enclomiphene led to a median testosterone increase of 166 ng/dL, which was not statistically significant compared to clomiphene. Enclomiphene resulted in a statistically significantly lower increase in estradiol levels compared to clomiphene

This study provides evidence that enclomiphene, can increase testosterone levels without raising estradiol levels.

Table 2​

Median difference between clomiphene and enclomiphene

Median​	Percentile 25​	Percentile 75​	Median​	Percentile 25​	Percentile 75​
Parameter change​	Clomiphene​	​	Enclomiphene​	P​
Change in testosterone, ng/dL​	98​	−18​	684.5​	​	166​	42.5​	683​	0.20​
Change in estradiol, pg/mL​	17.5​	4.1​	51.8​	​	−5.92​	−17.71​	26.8​	0.001​

Safety and efficacy of enclomiphene and clomiphene for hypogonadal men - Saffati - Translational Andrology and Urology

Actually, I recently started working with a new coach that runs a TRT clinic as well, and he actually said that though my estrogen is high because of the nature of the blocking of enclomiphene, sometimes people experience side effects from low estrogen on enclomiphene, not high. That was interesting to ponder, but in my mind, specifically in my case, I think due to high cortisol and increased estrogen, I had some negative estrogenic effects. Thank you so much for this advice!

For the record, I did make the switch from enclomiphene to TRT this Monday, and though enclomiphene was great(my free T raised from 7-177), I personally am not afraid of anabolic steroids. So because I want to dabble and try those, I needed to make the switch from enclomiphene to testosterone anyway.

 

[genetic freak]

If you were clinically low then just going on TRT is life changing and a lot of times, a cycle is not necessary.

I know, I know. You are going to do what you want. However, I spend so much time fixing people who had no business using gear. They use it as a crutch when their training is absolute trash. They think it is good, then they train with me and find out they were only training to about 40% capacity or effort. Or their diet sucks. It may not be trash, but it is not conducive to what they are trying to do.

 

[Wilson6]

If you were clinically low then just going on TRT is life changing and a lot of times, a cycle is not necessary.

I know, I know. You are going to do what you want. However, I spend so much time fixing people who had no business using gear. They use it as a crutch when their training is absolute trash. They think it is good, then they train with me and find out they were only training to about 40% capacity or effort. Or their diet sucks. It may not be trash, but it is not conducive to what they are trying to do.

"If you were clinically low then just going on TRT is life changing and a lot of times, a cycle is not necessary." That was me. T of 189. Either T or ND at 200 mg every 2 weeks (total) and a little hCG 350 IU twice a week added 50 lbs of lean (iDXA) to my frame over about 7 years. Even now 120 mg of TC every 5 days and 500 IU of hCG twice week has me about 30 lbs of lean over where I was when I was 30. I remember even before getting on HRT, just 10 mg of VAR would make me grow like something out of a sci fi movie. Docs will say as long as you're in the normal range, it makes no difference is total bullshit. Maybe in a sedentary shit eating fat ass but do everything else right and it makes a big difference.

 

[genetic freak]

I am proof you don't need much. I compete at the national level as a heavyweight, may even be super heavyweight this year. Until this year when I hired a coach, my peak cycle was 525 mg a week the last 4 weeks of prep. My coach doubled my dose. The only thing I can say about doubling the dose, I don't have to cut as hard. My calories are still REALLY high compared to where I am at normally on 400-500 mg a week.

 

[Bigtex]

I am proof you don't need much. I compete at the national level as a heavyweight, may even be super heavyweight this year. Until this year when I hired a coach, my peak cycle was 525 mg a week the last 4 weeks of prep. My coach doubled my dose. The only thing I can say about doubling the dose, I don't have to cut as hard. My calories are still REALLY high compared to where I am at normally on 400-500 mg a week.

I think it was Dan Duchaine who use to say, "food is the most anabolic thing you can do for your body." If you are not training 100% and eating plenty of calories to support growth, it going to be hard to grow. Michael Phelps during his Olympic training ate 10,000–12,000 calories/day, he was skinny. I did a nutritional analysis on Phil Heath after a contest, 9394 cal/day with a whopping 3.25g or protein/pound of body weight. I remember my days in powerlifting when I had a talk with Louie Simmons who was here in Houston at a THSCA conference. I was in the 242's and he told me I was not eating enough. He said If you want to have big lefts and be competitive, you need to get that weight up over 300lbs. Sure enough.....

@genetic freak I get people come up to me every day in the gym and compliment me for how hard I train. Almost 70 and I out work most all in the gym. Well shit, this is how you train, balls to the wall. Its all I know. I don't carry my damn cell phone to distract me, I don't talk to people and keep the music in my ears so loud I can't get hear conversations and get distracted. When I sit and rest,,, all I think about is how much more I have to bust my ass on the next set. I have told quite a few people who wanted to be good powerlifters that I can teach you how to lift, but you have to put out the effort and do the work. That's the hardest part. Like you said, most people never grow or get stronger because they work at about 40% of their capacity. Most then are afraid to eat enough to support growth. Trust me, I know how much dedication it takes to hit that SHW category. Good luck to you!